If Zenyatta wins the Classic

[copying]

RA knows where her main rival is racing. RA knows where the championship races are this year. RA knows where the undefeated defending champion is. I know Curlin got spanked last year and Jess doesn't want to play with the best of the world again.

RA = east coast version of Peppers Pride.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by copying

RA knows where her main rival is racing. RA knows where the championship races are this year. RA knows where the undefeated defending champion is. I know Curlin got spanked last year and Jess doesn't want to play with the best of the world again.

RA = east coast version of Peppers Pride.

You might want to consider never posting again.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

You might want to consider never posting again.

why? i'd hate to never read hilarity like that again.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

You might want to consider never posting again.

[letswastemoney]

Originally Posted by copying

RA knows where her main rival is racing. RA knows where the championship races are this year. RA knows where the undefeated defending champion is. I know Curlin got spanked last year and Jess doesn't want to play with the best of the world again.

RA = east coast version of Peppers Pride.

Wow! RA is one smart filly to have all that knowledge inside of her!

[zippyneedsawin]

Originally Posted by copying

RA knows where her main rival is racing. RA knows where the championship races are this year. RA knows where the undefeated defending champion is. I know Curlin got spanked last year and Jess doesn't want to play with the best of the world again.

RA = east coast version of Peppers Pride.

So I guess Zenyatta is the California verison of Peppers Pride?

[copying]

Originally Posted by zippyneedsawin

So I guess Zenyatta is the California verison of Peppers Pride?

Not hardly... Zenyatta has beaten the best of the west. Then she went to Oaklawn and drilled the best of the east (defending champ Ginger Punch). Then she went in the championship race and beat the best the world had to throw against her.

RA barely held off Macho Again? LOL

C'mon Jess, maybe she is good enough to compete with the best in the world???? Give her a chance.

[dean smith]

I think it's funny that it is near-unanimous that in a one-on-one match race, Zenyatta would have zero chance of beating RA, when it seems to me that the better horse would be able to get from Point A to Point B in faster time. Zenyatta's success is dependant on the pace of the rest of the field. RA dictates that pace and runs them off their feet. Someone has got to explain to me how a stretch runner who has run four times against nobodies has a chance to win HOY over a monster who has laid waste to the best thrown at her eight times.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by dean smith

I think it's funny that it is near-unanimous that in a one-on-one match race, Zenyatta would have zero chance of beating RA, when it seems to me that the better horse would be able to get from Point A to Point B in faster time. Zenyatta's success is dependant on the pace of the rest of the field. RA dictates that pace and runs them off their feet. Someone has got to explain to me how a stretch runner who has run four times against nobodies has a chance to win HOY over a monster who has laid waste to the best thrown at her eight times.

match races don't necessarily tell you which horse is better, since match races are generally won by whomever breaks best. the one in front dictates the entire race. do you really believe seabiscuit was a superior horse to war admiral? assault vs armed...swaps and nashua? a closer is doomed, because the leader can dawdle, keeping plenty in reserve for the finish.

[letswastemoney]

It would be kind of neat to see Zenyatta and Tiago in the same silks both flying down the stretch during the Classic.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by copying

Not hardly... Zenyatta has beaten the best of the west. Then she went to Oaklawn and drilled the best of the east (defending champ Ginger Punch). Then she went in the championship race and beat the best the world had to throw against her.

RA barely held off Macho Again? LOL

C'mon Jess, maybe she is good enough to compete with the best in the world???? Give her a chance.

all true, and all occurred last year, and has NO bearing on this year whatsoever. zenyatta was all out to win by a scant nose in her last vs the same lackluster competition she faced in her first couple races this year. could someone remind me of the top efforts from zenyatta's defeated foes in their other races this year? rachel had no breather from beginning to end, and accomplished a feat far superior to anything zenyatta has done all year, in winning her last vs open competition. if anyone could remind me when zenyatta has ever done the same, i would appreciate it. oh, wait...that's right-that would be never, since it's never even been tried.

[copying]

Originally Posted by Danzig

all true, and all occurred last year, and has NO bearing on this year whatsoever. zenyatta was all out to win by a scant nose in her last vs the same lackluster competition she faced in her first couple races this year. could someone remind me of the top efforts from zenyatta's defeated foes in their other races this year? rachel had no breather from beginning to end, and accomplished a feat far superior to anything zenyatta has done all year, in winning her last vs open competition. if anyone could remind me when zenyatta has ever done the same, i would appreciate it. oh, wait...that's right-that would be never, since it's never even been tried.

It was open competition but remember what that competition was. This is from the DFR's comments before the race:

[i]Seriously, though, this should be the biggest test since the Preakness, not because these G1 'cappers are so great, but because several are decent,[/I]

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by copying

It was open competition but remember what that competition was. This is from the DFR's comments before the race:

[i]Seriously, though, this should be the biggest test since the Preakness, not because these G1 'cappers are so great, but because several are decent,[/I]

i wonder how many gr 1 winners rachel and zenyatta have both beaten, or how many graded winners in total? and i seriously doubt that the competition zenyatta has faced this year comes anywhere close to what rachel has faced. you bring up rachels nose victory over macho again, but what about zenyattas nose vs the second place horse in her last-that placer was so notable, i can't even remember her name. but i doubt she's won anything resembling the stephen foster.
your attempt at trying to say that what zenyatta has done in '09 is anything close to what rachel has accomplished is quite laughable.

[King Glorious]

My God I wish this whole open competition thing would stop. Let's assume that Rachel and Zenyatta were both going to be in the Beldame. If you have Careless Jewel or Icon Project and you want to have the easiest chance to win, would you face them in the Beldame or go to the JCGC? The JCGC would be against open company but the Beldame would be the tougher race. The point is that open company doesn't automatically mean it's a tougher race. Polish Navy won the Woodward in 1987. Gulch won the Met Mile in 1987. Both of those were against older males. Neither of them were any match for the top 3yos that year (Java Gold, Alysheba, and Bet Twice) so in that case, did beating older mean more than beating your own division? No. Easy Goer could dominate the Whitney, the Woodward, and the JCGC against older but couldn't beat fellow 3yo Sunday Silence. Winning Colors could beat all of the best males in the Kentucky Derby but was beaten in the Las Virgenes by Goodbye Halo. Stop making so much of a big deal about the age and sex of the competition and look instead at the quality of the competition. If Rachel hadn't been in the Woodward, nobody at all would have been talking with reverence about the quality of that field. But since she beats them, it was an outstanding accomplishment? I don't think so.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

My God I wish this whole open competition thing would stop. Let's assume that Rachel and Zenyatta were both going to be in the Beldame. If you have Careless Jewel or Icon Project and you want to have the easiest chance to win, would you face them in the Beldame or go to the JCGC? The JCGC would be against open company but the Beldame would be the tougher race. The point is that open company doesn't automatically mean it's a tougher race. Polish Navy won the Woodward in 1987. Gulch won the Met Mile in 1987. Both of those were against older males. Neither of them were any match for the top 3yos that year (Java Gold, Alysheba, and Bet Twice) so in that case, did beating older mean more than beating your own division? No. Easy Goer could dominate the Whitney, the Woodward, and the JCGC against older but couldn't beat fellow 3yo Sunday Silence. Winning Colors could beat all of the best males in the Kentucky Derby but was beaten in the Las Virgenes by Goodbye Halo. Stop making so much of a big deal about the age and sex of the competition and look instead at the quality of the competition. If Rachel hadn't been in the Woodward, nobody at all would have been talking with reverence about the quality of that field. But since she beats them, it was an outstanding accomplishment? I don't think so.

i agree that open company, on its own, may not be that big of a deal. but i would like to know how a zenyatta cheerleader can say with a straight face that zenyatta has faced tougher comp this year than rachel has.

[johnny pinwheel]

Originally Posted by copying

Not hardly... Zenyatta has beaten the best of the west. Then she went to Oaklawn and drilled the best of the east (defending champ Ginger Punch). Then she went in the championship race and beat the best the world had to throw against her.

RA barely held off Macho Again? LOL

C'mon Jess, maybe she is good enough to compete with the best in the world???? Give her a chance.

you leave out the part where she won the haskell and the preakness while zenyatta was beating the usual suspects. zenyatta beat ginger punch when she was a step or two slower. this year shes beat practically no one. RA has also won in evey part of the country except the west coast. i f you ask me zenyatta is more of a peppers pride. she has not been in a race shes supposed to lose! she would of had a great shot in the woodward. the pace was perfect for her. if the connections wanted to nail HOY, they would of showed up. just sitting there racing scrubs saying you are the best because you win, doesn't cut it. i doubt she even runs in the classic because she would probably get trounced. RA is real good and as far as i can see the best horse at 9 furlongs in the country. you are arguing with some people that think shes better than ruffian, thats when i start to laugh.

[copying]

Originally Posted by johnny pinwheel

you leave out the part where she won the haskell and the preakness while zenyatta was beating the usual suspects. zenyatta beat ginger punch when she was a step or two slower. this year shes beat practically no one. RA has also won in evey part of the country except the west coast. i f you ask me zenyatta is more of a peppers pride. she has not been in a race shes supposed to lose! she would of had a great shot in the woodward. the pace was perfect for her. if the connections wanted to nail HOY, they would of showed up. just sitting there racing scrubs saying you are the best because you win, doesn't cut it. i doubt she even runs in the classic because she would probably get trounced. RA is real good and as far as i can see the best horse at 9 furlongs in the country. you are arguing with some people that think shes better than ruffian, thats when i start to laugh.

Z is on a course prepping to be on the track on Championship day as their plans were long ago announced. You think the Woodward was that day?
RA's nose win over the DRF's described field of "several decent runners" was HOY material? How laughable...

I've never claimed Z to be superhorse, I'm just saying RA hasn't done anything to stake that claim.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by copying

Z is on a course prepping to be on the track on Championship day as their plans were long ago announced. You think the Woodward was that day?
RA's nose win over the DRF's described field of "several decent runners" was HOY material? How laughable...

I've never claimed Z to be superhorse, I'm just saying RA hasn't done anything to stake that claim.

Speaking of laughable....

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by copying

Z is on a course prepping to be on the track on Championship day as their plans were long ago announced. You think the Woodward was that day?
RA's nose win over the DRF's described field of "several decent runners" was HOY material? How laughable...

I've never claimed Z to be superhorse, I'm just saying RA hasn't done anything to stake that claim.

Who is then? Pioneerof Denial? (Yes, I know, I await the tomatoes. It was a play on words with the poster and--nevermind) All I know is I'll be willing and able to tell fans in the future that I remember Rachel Alexandra and boy was she something special. She's got "it" whatever that is, and I figure when faced with that, we need to recognize its presence. You don't have to beat Secretariat to be a superhorse. If you did, well, all hail Onion... In the Woodward, she didn't just do something incredible for the year, she did something that'd be incredible in any year. So maybe it's not the official championship, but it represents something that deserves a lot of respect.

[Arletta]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

Who is then? Pioneerof Denial? (Yes, I know, I await the tomatoes. It was a play on words with the poster and--nevermind) All I know is I'll be willing and able to tell fans in the future that I remember Rachel Alexandra and boy was she something special. She's got "it" whatever that is, and I figure when faced with that, we need to recognize its presence. You don't have to beat Secretariat to be a superhorse. If you did, well, all hail Onion... In the Woodward, she didn't just do something incredible for the year, she did something that'd be incredible in any year. So maybe it's not the official championship, but it represents something that deserves a lot of respect.

Well said Merlinsky