If Zenyatta wins the Classic

King Glorious · #1 09-24-2009, 09:41 PM

That does come into the thought process.

Raven's Pass would have had a tough time beating the Curlin we saw throughout his 3yo season and through the World Cup. But the Curlin we saw those last few months of his career was nowhere near the same horse and I believe that Raven's Pass would have dusted him on any surface. I didn't see the surface beat a horse that day. I saw a horse that was tired and worn down and ran to the same mediocre level he ran at in the Woodward and JCGC. If he had been running against quality horses in those two races instead of the goats he was facing, we would have seen him beaten a couple of times.

NTamm1215 · #2 09-24-2009, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

That does come into the thought process.

Raven's Pass would have had a tough time beating the Curlin we saw throughout his 3yo season and through the World Cup. But the Curlin we saw those last few months of his career was nowhere near the same horse and I believe that Raven's Pass would have dusted him on any surface. I didn't see the surface beat a horse that day. I saw a horse that was tired and worn down and ran to the same mediocre level he ran at in the Woodward and JCGC. If he had been running against quality horses in those two races instead of the goats he was facing, we would have seen him beaten a couple of times.

I agree that Curlin was not the same horse towards the end of last year. But wasn't Curlin, a confirmed grinder who never really had a terrific burst of speed as his career wore on, asked to do something in the Classic that he was incapable of doing on any surface?

I thought Raven's Pass clearly the best horse that day but a big part of that was that he got the best ride. Dettori rode a perfect race and tactically knew that he had a chance if Curlin moved first.

I am just not willing to say that Zenyatta beating Summer Bird (a horse who trained so poorly over synthetic that his trainer gave him away) and Mine That Bird (who ran last over this very surface a year ago) is going to boost her HOY credentials because she will have beaten horses who Rachel beat as well.

NT

King Glorious · #3 09-24-2009, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I agree that Curlin was not the same horse towards the end of last year. But wasn't Curlin, a confirmed grinder who never really had a terrific burst of speed as his career wore on, asked to do something in the Classic that he was incapable of doing on any surface?

I thought Raven's Pass clearly the best horse that day but a big part of that was that he got the best ride. Dettori rode a perfect race and tactically knew that he had a chance if Curlin moved first.

I am just not willing to say that Zenyatta beating Summer Bird (a horse who trained so poorly over synthetic that his trainer gave him away) and Mine That Bird (who ran last over this very surface a year ago) is going to boost her HOY credentials because she will have beaten horses who Rachel beat as well.

NT

In addition, who knows which of the Europeans will take to it? I admit that I didn't even take the surface into consideration when making that argument. I have no idea why that slipped my mind. However, even beating Rail Trip and Einstein, who are both confirmed on the surface, would be more impressive to me than beating either of the Bird horses or Macho Again.

Cannon Shell · #4 09-24-2009, 11:53 PM

Jesus, Zenyatta has zero chance of winning the classic. She will be standing in her stall when the race is run. not to mention there is little chance that Sea the stars is coming either. If Kickin n Screamin wins on Monday and then wins the Distaff turf or whatever the call the fillies turf race is she champpion turf mare?

copying · #5 09-25-2009, 12:42 AM

RA knows where her main rival is racing. RA knows where the championship races are this year. RA knows where the undefeated defending champion is. I know Curlin got spanked last year and Jess doesn't want to play with the best of the world again.

RA = east coast version of Peppers Pride.

King Glorious · #6 09-25-2009, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copying

RA knows where her main rival is racing. RA knows where the championship races are this year. RA knows where the undefeated defending champion is. I know Curlin got spanked last year and Jess doesn't want to play with the best of the world again.

RA = east coast version of Peppers Pride.

You might want to consider never posting again.

Danzig · #7 09-25-2009, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

You might want to consider never posting again.

why? i'd hate to never read hilarity like that again.

Antitrust32 · #8 09-25-2009, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

You might want to consider never posting again.

letswastemoney · #9 09-25-2009, 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copying

RA knows where her main rival is racing. RA knows where the championship races are this year. RA knows where the undefeated defending champion is. I know Curlin got spanked last year and Jess doesn't want to play with the best of the world again.

RA = east coast version of Peppers Pride.

Wow! RA is one smart filly to have all that knowledge inside of her!

zippyneedsawin · #10 09-25-2009, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copying

RA knows where her main rival is racing. RA knows where the championship races are this year. RA knows where the undefeated defending champion is. I know Curlin got spanked last year and Jess doesn't want to play with the best of the world again.

RA = east coast version of Peppers Pride.

So I guess Zenyatta is the California verison of Peppers Pride?

copying · #11 09-26-2009, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zippyneedsawin

So I guess Zenyatta is the California verison of Peppers Pride?

Not hardly... Zenyatta has beaten the best of the west. Then she went to Oaklawn and drilled the best of the east (defending champ Ginger Punch). Then she went in the championship race and beat the best the world had to throw against her.

RA barely held off Macho Again? LOL

C'mon Jess, maybe she is good enough to compete with the best in the world???? Give her a chance.

NTamm1215 · #12 09-25-2009, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copying

RA knows where her main rival is racing. RA knows where the championship races are this year. RA knows where the undefeated defending champion is. I know Curlin got spanked last year and Jess doesn't want to play with the best of the world again.

RA = east coast version of Peppers Pride.

You're right, I wish RA was owned by Jerry Moss. It would have been scintillating all summer to see her win the Acorn by 20, the Mother Goose by 20, the CCA Oaks by potentially 40 lengths and then the Alabama. Who needs a horse who takes on all different rivals, beats them at their game all the while showing unprecedented speed, courage, and tenacity?

I'd much prefer a horse who faces absolute nobodies all year in a virtually identical campaign to the one they had the prior year.

Fault Rachel Alexandra for having a trainer with a spotty record or an owner who didn't breed her (as if that's a problem) but IMO if you really believe what you posted above you are the type of person that makes this game still playable, provided you bet with the same horrendous opinions.

NT

johnny pinwheel · #13 09-25-2009, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copying

RA knows where her main rival is racing. RA knows where the championship races are this year. RA knows where the undefeated defending champion is. I know Curlin got spanked last year and Jess doesn't want to play with the best of the world again.

RA = east coast version of Peppers Pride.

yeah, theres some real monsters out there. i'm sure lava man coming back is shaking in his shoes.