Rachel Alexandra to Woodward

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by CSC

Because it is historically one of the top Grade 1's does not improve her 'legacy' Jess's words than if she won the Travers this year. I don't think any intelligent follower of the game would say the better field is the Woodward this year. While on the other hand you could have the 3 triple crown winners facing off with not to mention a field with depth horses.

I personally think that beating older horses on September 5th of her 3yo year in Saratoga adds a whole lot more to her "legacy" than beating colts for the 3rd time. She's already won the Preakness and the Haskell.. she has nothing more to prove in her age group. She's trying to do something that has never been done in the history of racing.

Also, I might get crap for this.. but we really have no idea how the 3yo colts stack up against the older horses. There are no names that stick out regarding the older horses.. but how good is Mine That Bird & Summer Bird really?? I wouldnt bet on them in the Woodward against older horses.. Quality Road is the dark horse, but we really wont have any questions answered about him until after the Travers.. I also wouldnt bet on him in the Woodward. Just because the names are more interesting doesnt mean the 3yo colts are better than the older horses, that remains to be seen. The older horses are crappy compared to years past, but they still may be equal/better than the 3yo's.

The Woodward is a much more difficult spot to run a 3yo filly than the Travers. It takes a lot more "balls" for lack of a better word than to run her against 3yo colts again.. all of whom (besides QR) she has blown away already. The only reason it may be a better spot for her than the Travers is she may be suited better for 1 1/8th than 1 1/4th.

I'm 99% confident she would win the Travers the same way she won the Haskell. The Woodward will be a much bigger accomplishment IF she wins..

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I personally think that beating older horses on September 5th of her 3yo year in Saratoga adds a whole lot more to her "legacy" than beating colts for the 3rd time. She's already won the Preakness and the Haskell.. she has nothing more to prove in her age group. She's trying to do something that has never been done in the history of racing.

Also, I might get crap for this.. but we really have no idea how the 3yo colts stack up against the older horses. There are no names that stick out regarding the older horses.. but how good is Mine That Bird & Summer Bird really?? I wouldnt bet on them in the Woodward against older horses.. Quality Road is the dark horse, but we really wont have any questions answered about him until after the Travers.. I also wouldnt bet on him in the Woodward. Just because the names are more interesting doesnt mean the 3yo colts are better than the older horses, that remains to be seen. The older horses are crappy compared to years past, but they still may be equal/better than the 3yo's.

The Woodward is a much more difficult spot to run a 3yo filly than the Travers. It takes a lot more "balls" for lack of a better word than to run her against 3yo colts again.. all of whom (besides QR) she has blown away already. The only reason it may be a better spot for her than the Travers is she may be suited better for 1 1/8th than 1 1/4th.

I'm 99% confident she would win the Travers the same way she won the Haskell. The Woodward will be a much bigger accomplishment IF she wins..

I understand your reasoning however historically things are starting to change in regards to horseracing in general, we simply do not see quality horses campaign into years 4 or 5 anymore, there is much more emphasis being placed on breeding that the best races often seem to be the 3 yr old series of races. Gone are the days of The Cigar's, Forego's ect...For me personally a Travers win in 09 far outweighs a win in the Woodward. I don't think even the intermediate horseracing fan would have heard of Bullsbay prior to his win in the Whitney nevermind the novice. On the other hand even the novice's know who wins the derby.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by CSC

I understand your reasoning however historically things are starting to change in regards to horseracing in general, we simply do not see quality horses campaign into years 4 or 5 anymore, there is much more emphasis being placed on breeding that the best races often seem to be the 3 yr old series of races. Gone are the days of The Cigar's, Forego's ect...For me personally a Travers win in 09 far outweighs a win in the Woodward. I don't think even the intermediate horseracing fan would have heard of Bullsbay prior to his win in the Whitney nevermind the novice. On the other hand even the novice's know who wins the derby.

I understand your reasoning also.. for me, she's been there done that.. I'd love to see her beat older horses in September of her 3yo year.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I understand your reasoning also.. for me, she's been there done that.. I'd love to see her beat older horses in September of her 3yo year.

Normally I would agree with you, however we haven't had anything in the older horse category to be excited about this year and probably last year with the exception of a couple of races from Curlin.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I personally think that beating older horses on September 5th of her 3yo year in Saratoga adds a whole lot more to her "legacy" than beating colts for the 3rd time. She's already won the Preakness and the Haskell.. she has nothing more to prove in her age group. She's trying to do something that has never been done in the history of racing.

Also, I might get crap for this.. but we really have no idea how the 3yo colts stack up against the older horses. There are no names that stick out regarding the older horses.. but how good is Mine That Bird & Summer Bird really?? I wouldnt bet on them in the Woodward against older horses.. Quality Road is the dark horse, but we really wont have any questions answered about him until after the Travers.. I also wouldnt bet on him in the Woodward. Just because the names are more interesting doesnt mean the 3yo colts are better than the older horses, that remains to be seen. The older horses are crappy compared to years past, but they still may be equal/better than the 3yo's.

The Woodward is a much more difficult spot to run a 3yo filly than the Travers. It takes a lot more "balls" for lack of a better word than to run her against 3yo colts again.. all of whom (besides QR) she has blown away already. The only reason it may be a better spot for her than the Travers is she may be suited better for 1 1/8th than 1 1/4th.

I'm 99% confident she would win the Travers the same way she won the Haskell. The Woodward will be a much bigger accomplishment IF she wins..

Your argument would hold more sway if you actually named the older horses that she will face without breaking out into hysterical laughter....

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Your argument would hold more sway if you actually named the older horses that she will face without breaking out into hysterical laughter....

I dont think Bullsbay, Cool Coal Man, Macho Again, Asiatic Boy, Quality Road, Mine That Bird, Summer Bird, Warriors whatever, kensai, etc. scare Assman and jackson at all.

The Woodward is a joke w/out Rachel. But honestly would you really want to throw down big money on all the 3yo's listed, besides Quality Road maybe, beating the older horses listed?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I dont think Bullsbay, Cool Coal Man, Macho Again, Asiatic Boy, Quality Road, Mine That Bird, Summer Bird, Warriors whatever, kensai, etc. scare Assman and jackson at all.

The Woodward is a joke w/out Rachel. But honestly would you really want to throw down big money on all the 3yo's listed, besides Quality Road maybe, beating the older horses listed?

Sure. Bullsbay, Cool Coal man, Macho Again and Asiatic boy have all been beaten with regularity their whole careers by mediocres. While running in the Woodward is a nice achievement it isnt exactly Holy Bull, Cigar and Skip Away lining up against her.

[Revidere]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Sure. Bullsbay, Cool Coal man, Macho Again and Asiatic boy have all been beaten with regularity their whole careers by mediocres. While running in the Woodward is a nice achievement it isnt exactly Holy Bull, Cigar and Skip Away lining up against her.

I guess it's similar to Personal Ensign beating males in the Whitney.

Gulch and Kings Swan

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Revidere

I guess it's similar to Personal Ensign beating males in the Whitney.

Gulch and Kings Swan

Gulch and Kings Sawn would drown those mutts.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Sure. Bullsbay, Cool Coal man, Macho Again and Asiatic boy have all been beaten with regularity their whole careers by mediocres. While running in the Woodward is a nice achievement it isnt exactly Holy Bull, Cigar and Skip Away lining up against her.

Giving Kensei a shot to win the second most important 3 year old race is reasonable. All the horses are going to duck her, now McLaughlin is looking for a home for his wanna be Handicap horse. The only reason Pletcher would even try and beat her with QR is because of the magnitude of the race. You think Pletcher wanted to try Munnings in Haskell?
BTW if he only paid 8 mil for Rachel he stole her. Ashado was 10mil and she couldn't have been within 10 lengths of Rachel on her best day.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Giving Kensei a shot to win the second most important 3 year old race is reasonable. All the horses are going to duck her, now McLaughlin is looking for a home for his wanna be Handicap horse. The only reason Pletcher would even try and beat her with QR is because of the magnitude of the race. You think Pletcher wanted to try Munnings in Haskell?
BTW if he only paid 8 mil for Rachel he stole her. Ashado was 10mil and she couldn't have been within 10 lengths of Rachel on her best day.

Actually, yes. He needed a race between the Tom Fool and the King's Bishop, and if there was ever a track where Munnings could get a Grade I win going 9F (to help the Coolmore boys for stallion purposes), it would be Monmouth.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

Actually, yes. He needed a race between the Tom Fool and the King's Bishop, and if there was ever a track where Munnings could get a Grade I win going 9F (to help the Coolmore boys for stallion purposes), it would be Monmouth.

He had to know he was 30/1 to beat her and he certainly would have never tried it without the obvious direction from her owners..That colt needs 7f's or a one turn mile.. The Cigar Mile in November should be his swan song..

[Cannon Shell]

[quote=freddymo]Giving Kensei a shot to win the second most important 3 year old race is reasonable. All the horses are going to duck her, now McLaughlin is looking for a home for his wanna be Handicap horse. The only reason Pletcher would even try and beat her with QR is because of the magnitude of the race. You think Pletcher wanted to try Munnings in Haskell?
BTW if he only paid 8 mil for Rachel he stole her. Ashado was 10mil and she couldn't have been within 10 lengths of Rachel on her best day.[/QUOTE]
Ashado was bought as a broodmare under far different conditions. Her value is immaterial because he wont sell her anyway.

[freddymo]

[quote=Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Giving Kensei a shot to win the second most important 3 year old race is reasonable. All the horses are going to duck her, now McLaughlin is looking for a home for his wanna be Handicap horse. The only reason Pletcher would even try and beat her with QR is because of the magnitude of the race. You think Pletcher wanted to try Munnings in Haskell?
BTW if he only paid 8 mil for Rachel he stole her. Ashado was 10mil and she couldn't have been within 10 lengths of Rachel on her best day.[/QUOTE]
Ashado was bought as a broodmare under far different conditions. Her value is immaterial because he wont sell her anyway.

Are you suggesting that 10 mil for a St B in foal to Indy (300k maybe?) isn't relative to a M'doro world class racing filly..What am I missing indy on top? lol

I forgot Curlin is in her future? Ok save reality for 1 second give me a fig she would sell for at Keeneland Mixed 10 in foal to Indy... 15 mil?