Cap and Trade vote on Friday

[SOREHOOF]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

Of course its a crock. they had to change it to climate change to skip over the fact that there has been global cooling for about 10 years. other contrary scientific opinions that don't support the narrative are also deep sixed. the fact is that relying on models as an accurate way to understand complex and subtle climatic behavior is assinine. the system is way too complex for the puny models they use with limited data.

they selectively pick and choose the science that will support their power grab. Like I've been saying, it doesn't matter to this bunch that the current bill will not reduce atmospheric CO2 levels. this is what liberals do, enact onerous feel good laws that they can boast about how they've really done something wonderful when in fact they will cause more harm than good.

the work that will shift to China and India where they will not be limiting CO2 output will in my opinion actually increase the rate that CO2 is churned out worldwide.

Kind of like "jobs saved" people don't care.No one questions this administration. If you thought Bush was trying to control everything how can you possibly approve of what's going on now?

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by SOREHOOF

Kind of like "jobs saved" people don't care.No one questions this administration. If you thought Bush was trying to control everything how can you possibly approve of what's going on now?

The stimulus plan was the first Obama disaster... and people are now calling them out on that.. cap and trade will be his second disaster... well maybe.. hope congress thinks enough about keeping their jobs and kills this bill.

[dellinger63]

Senior Democrat senators said on Wednesday they would change a provision that imposes carbon taxes on imports following warnings that the clause in the House’s cap-and-trade bill could spark a global trade war.

How fitting to tax the people they're supposed to represent and let foreign companies slide because they're afraid.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f91e0ff4-6...44feabdc0.html

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Senior Democrat senators said on Wednesday they would change a provision that imposes carbon taxes on imports following warnings that the clause in the House’s cap-and-trade bill could spark a global trade war.

How fitting to tax the people they're supposed to represent and let foreign companies slide because they're afraid.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f91e0ff4-6...44feabdc0.html

Shocking.

[wiphan]

Does anyone here actually believe in Cap and Trade and believe that it will work? Obviously most republicans or people that lean to the right do not, but does anyone actually think this is a good idea whether you believe in global warming or not? Is this really a solution? I would love to see an arguement for Cap and trade. All of the discussion has been on whether global warming exists or not, will someone please argue why they believe cap and trade is a good idea?

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by wiphan

Does anyone here actually believe in Cap and Trade and believe that it will work? Obviously most republicans or people that lean to the right do not, but does anyone actually think this is a good idea whether you believe in global warming or not? Is this really a solution? I would love to see an arguement for Cap and trade. All of the discussion has been on whether global warming exists or not, will someone please argue why they believe cap and trade is a good idea?

Will it work in solving the non-existent "climate change" problem? Sure, I guess. It works as well as any other "remedy" this president recommends. He is the monarch in "The Emperor's New Clothes". Everyone is afraid to say that much of what he utters is complete nonsense. So he signed a 700 billion dollar bill that won't fix the economy. So what...he inherited the problem, so he gets to decide to what degree it can be fixed, and when, and he will constantly remind you about Bush, much like FDR reminded everyone about Herbert Hoover. It's the same old story.

The temperature of the earth fluctuates. First, let's start with the concept of measuring the temperature. If you spot measure, how do you know that "taking an average" is in anyway significant? How does the temperature in Miami relate to the temperature in Moscow?

Also, if you want to demonstrate any scientific knowledge, you can't refer to carbon dioxide as a pollutant. That's idiotic. It's been here from the beginning of life on the planet, and the plants breathe it in to convert back to oxygen for us. Notice that nobody is talking about planting more trees. That would be the one measure that makes sense if you are concerned about carbon dioxide levels. They (the enviro-Nazis) are not recommending it because that would not allow them to control your life -- to tell you how big of a house or a car you can have, or how much you will pay for energy, and for all the manufactured goods you buy, or how much beef you can have because cows fart too much. It's absurd -- it's the new religion, and if you question it you are considered a heretic.

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Will it work in solving the non-existent "climate change" problem? Sure, I guess. It works as well as any other "remedy" this president recommends. He is the monarch in "The Emperor's New Clothes". Everyone is afraid to say that much of what he utters is complete nonsense. So he signed a 700 billion dollar bill that won't fix the economy. So what...he inherited the problem, so he gets to decide to what degree it can be fixed, and when, and he will constantly remind you about Bush, much like FDR reminded everyone about Herbert Hoover. It's the same old story.

The temperature of the earth fluctuates. First, let's start with the concept of measuring the temperature. If you spot measure, how do you know that "taking an average" is in anyway significant? How does the temperature in Miami relate to the temperature in Moscow?

Also, if you want to demonstrate any scientific knowledge, you can't refer to carbon dioxide as a pollutant. That's idiotic. It's been here from the beginning of life on the planet, and the plants breathe it in to convert back to oxygen for us. Notice that nobody is talking about planting more trees. That would be the one measure that makes sense if you are concerned about carbon dioxide levels. They (the enviro-Nazis) are not recommending it because that would not allow them to control your life -- to tell you how big of a house or a car you can have, or how much you will pay for energy, and for all the manufactured goods you buy, or how much beef you can have because cows fart too much. It's absurd -- it's the new religion, and if you question it you are considered a heretic.

I agree with you, what I am looking for is someone that believes in cap and trade and why they believe it will work. Personally no one I have talked to that has any understanding of Cap and Trade or Cap and TAX actually believes that it is a good thing. Can someone please explain to me why they believe cap and trade is a good thing and how it will benefit US tax payers and the environment?

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by wiphan

I agree with you, what I am looking for is someone that believes in cap and trade and why they believe it will work. Personally no one I have talked to that has any understanding of Cap and Trade or Cap and TAX actually believes that it is a good thing. Can someone please explain to me why they believe cap and trade is a good thing and how it will benefit US tax payers and the environment?

Yet another reason why we need Morty back.......

[Riot]

Originally Posted by joeydb

The temperature of the earth fluctuates. First, let's start with the concept of measuring the temperature. If you spot measure, how do you know that "taking an average" is in anyway significant? How does the temperature in Miami relate to the temperature in Moscow? Also, if you want to demonstrate any scientific knowledge, you can't refer to carbon dioxide as a pollutant. That's idiotic. It's been here from the beginning of life on the planet, and the plants breathe it in to convert back to oxygen for us. Notice that nobody is talking about planting more trees. That would be the one measure that makes sense if you are concerned about carbon dioxide levels. They (the enviro-Nazis) are not recommending it because that would not allow them to control your life -- to tell you how big of a house or a car you can have, or how much you will pay for energy, and for all the manufactured goods you buy, or how much beef you can have because cows fart too much. It's absurd -- it's the new religion, and if you question it you are considered a heretic.

If you think that "spot measuring the temperature" in Miami vs Moscow is an integral part of "showing global warming exists", you need to go read up on global warming. Please. Here's a start: www.nationalgeographic.com

Yes, you can refer to a substance that is common as a "pollutant" when it is in excess. Not idiotic at all. A dangerous pollutant.

Guess you are missing the huge "plant trees, plant green" push on now, especially in cities. Yes, everybody is talking about planting more trees.

Your comment about enviro-nazi's and religion is a silly characterization that has nothing to do with global warming and climate change, and everything to do only with personal political views.

Stop dragging science through the mud just to satisfy political views.

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by Riot

If you think that "spot measuring the temperature" in Miami vs Moscow is an integral part of "showing global warming exists", you need to go read up on global warming. Please. Here's a start: www.nationalgeographic.com

Yes, you can refer to a substance that is common as a "pollutant" when it is in excess. Not idiotic at all. A dangerous pollutant.

Guess you are missing the huge "plant trees, plant green" push on now, especially in cities. Yes, everybody is talking about planting more trees.

Your comment about enviro-nazi's and religion is a silly characterization that has nothing to do with global warming and climate change, and everything to do only with personal political views.

Stop dragging science through the mud just to satisfy political views.

you should do what i do. just close your eyes and imagine all the "i just breathed out and caused pollution ha ha ha!" folks breathing in a 100% carbon dioxide atmosphere for a few minutes. it's a completely harmless gas in any concentration, dont'cha know?

btw: all the "plant a tree" stuff is great for us but what happens in 300 years when all the trees we planted start dying and releasing their carbon back into the atmosphere? plants are carbon banks. whatever is deposited eventually gets withdrawn.

wiphan: cap and trade on sulphur dioxide was an unqualified success despite screaming from coal energy it was too expensive and the environmentalists it wouldn't work quick enough. remember acid rain? what does the right have against market solutions that worked before?

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

Your comment about enviro-nazi's and religion is a silly characterization that has nothing to do with global warming and climate change, and everything to do only with personal political views.
.

Now how ironic and moronic is it that Al Gore brought this up a week ago?.....

Originally Posted by wiphan

Does anyone here actually believe in Cap and Trade and believe that it will work? Obviously most republicans or people that lean to the right do not, but does anyone actually think this is a good idea whether you believe in global warming or not? Is this really a solution? I would love to see an arguement for Cap and trade. All of the discussion has been on whether global warming exists or not, will someone please argue why they believe cap and trade is a good idea?

Non partisan honesty...

I cannot.
The cases I have seen where this type of system
works are few. I did read one that worked on a small scale.

But for God's sake why dont Republicans stick to this part
of it and not get involved with the side Science issues
which do not fit their agenda. Republicans just deny
there is any problem. How about "we really dont know
if a man-made climate problem exists, but we do know
for damn sure if there is a problem, this will not fix it."

Why start with slanted BS to begin the argument?
Cut right to the meat. Republicans have discredited
themselves so many times with Science (evolution already
mentioned) that when something legitimate arises the other
side is automatically going to think its disingenous. There
are still Republicans that never believed acid rain existed
or caused any problems.