RAGS or RACHEL

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by CSC

Interesting you mentioned the Martha Washington, Eight Belles won that by quite a margin also and if I can humbly say I would rank her 2nd in the derby though not a win was quite an accomplishment also, especially when you are referencing R2R and RA performances against the opposite sex.

but rachel shaved two seconds off the record in that win. that's why i mentioned it.
as for eight belles, that derby had her and big brown, and nothing else.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Danzig

but rachel shaved two seconds off the record in that win. that's why i mentioned it.
as for eight belles, that derby had her and big brown, and nothing else.

Why does the competition that Eight Belles and Rags To Riches (and by curious extension HOY Curlin) ran against come into play against them, and yet the same standard is not extended to Rachel Alexandra?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Why does the competition that Eight Belles and Rags To Riches (and by curious extension HOY Curlin) ran against come into play against them, and yet the same standard is not extended to Rachel Alexandra?

i think the field saturday is the best one rachel has faced, i haven't said otherwise. i also think eight belles gets more credit than she deserves because of her death. and i'll probably get crap for saying that, but it's true and is my opinion. yes, she got second in the derby-i'd have been shocked if she hadn't, considering who else ran...
i don't think curlin is that good, so why would i give points for rags beating him by a head bob? i think there were better horses in that crop that year than curlin, and that he benefitted by them all clearing the field and leaving him to it all at age four.


edit~ the question was which race i thought was better, i gave my answer and why i thought that way-that's all.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i think the field saturday is the best one rachel has faced, i haven't said otherwise. i also think eight belles gets more credit than she deserves because of her death. and i'll probably get crap for saying that, but it's true and is my opinion. yes, she got second in the derby-i'd have been shocked if she hadn't, considering who else ran...
i don't think curlin is that good, so why would i give points for rags beating him by a head bob? i think there were better horses in that crop that year than curlin, and that he benefitted by them all clearing the field and leaving him to it all at age four.


edit~ the question was which race i thought was better, i gave my answer and why i thought that way-that's all.

Did you see the '07 JCGC and BC Classic? Who of consequence was missing from those races?

I suppose Curlin loses points for being both versatile and durable?

As for the edit, you've clearly gone beyond the initial question. Else, why are we talking about multiple renewals of the Martha Washington?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Did you see the '07 JCGC and BC Classic? Who of consequence was missing from those races?

I suppose Curlin loses points for being both versatile and durable?

As for the edit, you've clearly gone beyond the initial question. Else, why are we talking about multiple renewals of the Martha Washington?

yes, i saw them.
also, i went beyond the topic because i saw mention from others of not just who they thought had the better race, but who was the better horse-so i chose to expound on my answer and how i arrived at my thinking.

as for curlin, i am mostly thinking of his four year old season when i say he had the field to himself. i thought he had a very good season at three, as did a few others. i think it's a shame they all retired, and left him to play all alone.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Some people forget that Any Given Saturday was a shorter price than Curlin in the Breeders Cup Classic in which he won...and the Belmont Stakes the year R2R won it was such an insanely slow paced race and Curlin was down inside at Belmont.

I realize R2R beat a far more legit horse ... but it's tempting to pick RA's Preakness because R2R's Belmont was run at a snail's pace at an uncommonly long distance.

I voted dead heat.

Another less tricky poll would be RA's Oaks win vs RA's Preakness win.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Some people forget that Any Given Saturday was a shorter price than Curlin in the Breeders Cup Classic in which he won...and the Belmont Stakes the year R2R won it was such an insanely slow paced race and Curlin was down inside at Belmont.

I realize R2R beat a far more legit horse ... but it's tempting to pick RA's Preakness because R2R's Belmont was run at a snail's pace at an uncommonly long distance.

I voted dead heat.

Another less tricky poll would be RA's Oaks win vs RA's Preakness win.

i don't know...some would pick the oaks because of the margin, but i would definitely vote for saturdays effort.

[ddthetide]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Why does the competition that Eight Belles and Rags To Riches (and by curious extension HOY Curlin) ran against come into play against them, and yet the same standard is not extended to Rachel Alexandra?

i voted for R2R and would vote for Eight Belles. we got to see them have to dig down and find something extra to win. to me they have an extra toughness.
now i think RA is VERY special but until we get to see her dig down and find something extra, i'll hold my greatness vote.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by ddthetide

i voted for R2R and would vote for Eight Belles. we got to see them have to dig down and find something extra to win. to me they have an extra toughness.
now i think RA is VERY special but until we get to see her dig down and find something extra, i'll hold my greatness vote.

so what do you call what happened saturday????? she definately dug down.

[King Glorious]

Rags ran toe to toe with that year's HOY. Rachel, while running an outstanding race, prevailed over a horse that was twice losing at Sunland this year. You don't have to think much of Curlin but he's light years better than Mine that Bird and thus beating him, no matter the pace of the speed figures is the more impressive race for me.

[letswastemoney]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Rags ran toe to toe with that year's HOY. Rachel, while running an outstanding race, prevailed over a horse that was twice losing at Sunland this year. You don't have to think much of Curlin but he's light years better than Mine that Bird and thus beating him, no matter the pace of the speed figures is the more impressive race for me.

We don't know what Mine That Bird will go on to accomplish...I think it's impossible to conclude RA is better or worse at this point.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Rags ran toe to toe with that year's HOY. Rachel, while running an outstanding race, prevailed over a horse that was twice losing at Sunland this year. You don't have to think much of Curlin but he's light years better than Mine that Bird and thus beating him, no matter the pace of the speed figures is the more impressive race for me.

Bit surprised by this.

While she did beat Curlin, it was also in the Belmont Stakes, a race she was bred to win and the race you've typed many a novel about.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Bit surprised by this.

While she did beat Curlin, it was also in the Belmont Stakes, a race she was bred to win and the race you've typed many a novel about.

I don't believe in breeding anymore than I believe in cheese on the moon. What I say about the Belmont is that it's result is irrelevant in the overall scheme of things because it tells us who's the best 12f dirt horse in a country where they don't run anymore 12f dirt races at that level. That doesn't mean that a good horse can't be running in it or that a horse can't put in a good performance. In Rags and Curlin, I thought I saw two horses running a good race.