Weekend Beyers (Genl Qrtrs 95; Papa Clem 101)

[Diver67]

I'm hoping Pioneer is the real deal as he is my hometown horse but I do acknowledge the concerns over the surface switch and his "slow" Beyers. But it is almost comical how all the experts declare that IWR and PC are "obviously" better on dirt--and that Take the Points (also beaten by Pioneer) is "obviously" worse on synthetics. I could understand being cautious about Pioneer until he runs on dirt, but I don't understand the wide disregard for him given the horses he's beaten.

And don't get me started on some of the love-fests for Chocolate Candy, who will also "obviously" move up on dirt.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Papa Clem is about as good on dirt as he is on synthetic tracks. Even though his sire Smart Strike is also the sire of confirmed synthetic track haters Curlin and Fabulous Strike ... and both Papa Clem's dam and 2nd were Grade 1 winners on real dirt.

Take the Points is also as "good" on synthetic as he is on dirt.

I Want Revenge is light years better on dirt than synthetic. I would load up on Take the Points against IWR on a syn track.

[FATPIANO]

The unknown factor, POTN has beaten both Papa Clem and IWR, they have both come back to win big races, but on dirt, So to me common sense says take a good long look at POTN on Derby Day, no guarantees here, but HE does deserve a good long look, and if Baffert works him at Churchill Downs and he works like he does at Home, WATCH OUT

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by FATPIANO

The unknown factor, POTN has beaten both Papa Clem and IWR, they have both come back to win big races, but on dirt, So to me common sense says take a good long look at POTN on Derby Day, no guarantees here, but HE does deserve a good long look, and if Baffert works him at Churchill Downs and he works like he does at Home, WATCH OUT

be very careful with that approach. all trainers say the horses are doing well leading up to the kd, and all horses look like a million bucks. but only one of them can win.

the odds will not justify betting pioneer.

as for beating papa clem, people are reading too much into papas last win. yeah, he won the ark derby-someone had to tho. i don't like the race, or who was in it. i thought all things considered that old fashioned ran the best race. clem was all out to beat a horse that set a pretty good pace, and broke a knee. that didn't impress me at all.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Papa Clem is about as good on dirt as he is on synthetic tracks. Even though his sire Smart Strike is also the sire of confirmed synthetic track haters Curlin and Fabulous Strike ... and both Papa Clem's dam and 2nd were Grade 1 winners on real dirt.

Take the Points is also as "good" on synthetic as he is on dirt.

I Want Revenge is light years better on dirt than synthetic. I would load up on Take the Points against IWR on a syn track.

right. he got lucky in what he faced in arkansas.