Please Expound Mr. President

[Honu]

Originally Posted by Danzig

you're confusing an entire group with a few sick, twisted individuals. in other words, you're giving right back what the few criminals gave to us- blind, unthinking hatred. some of them want all of us dead, apparently some of us feel the same way.
isn't that just grand...

Its not grand but they sure as hell dont represent themselves well , you know the peace loving one's , the ones we never hear from. Where are they ?Why arent they standing up against the people that they are allowing to speak the loudest for them ?
It didnt just start at the twin towers , it started long before that and we didnt do anything to stop them from becoming more brazen , we just let it go as issolated inccidents instead of showing some force on the subject.
They would do themselves a great bit of good to start showing some people in the news , people of clout amongst them denouncing and calling and end to violence , but instead they let "a few" as you call them speak for all.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Honu

Its not grand but they sure as hell dont represent themselves well , you know the peace loving one's , the ones we never hear from. Where are they ?Why arent they standing up against the people that they are allowing to speak the loudest for them ?
It didnt just start at the twin towers , it started long before that and we didnt do anything to stop them from becoming more brazen , we just let it go as issolated inccidents instead of showing some force on the subject.
They would do themselves a great bit of good to start showing some people in the news , people of clout amongst them denouncing and calling and end to violence , but instead they let "a few" as you call them speak for all.

http://www.theamericanmuslim.org/tam...d_terrorism_2/

http://www.islamdenouncesterrorism.com/

http://www.islamfortoday.com/terrorism.htm

http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1052203.html


that's just for starters. i suggest you do searches from now on on topics, rather than just taking whatever bad news you hear as gospel. also, keep in mind what sells newspapers and tv ads-usually blood, guts, gloom and doom.
and of course it helps 'us' fight a war when we demonize and dehumanize the enemy, right?

[Honu]

Originally Posted by Danzig

http://www.theamericanmuslim.org/tam...d_terrorism_2/

http://www.islamdenouncesterrorism.com/

http://www.islamfortoday.com/terrorism.htm

http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1052203.html


that's just for starters. i suggest you do searches from now on on topics, rather than just taking whatever bad news you hear as gospel. also, keep in mind what sells newspapers and tv ads-usually blood, guts, gloom and doom.
and of course it helps 'us' fight a war when we demonize and dehumanize the enemy, right?

So how are we supposed to view the enemy ? Are we to just view them as misunderstood people ? I most likely can find just as many or more websites that condone Jihad . Do you think your outlook would have won us WW2 , I mean surely not all Germans , Japanese or Italians were bad guys right ?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Honu

So how are we supposed to view the enemy ? Are we to just view them as misunderstood people ? I most likely can find just as many or more websites that condone Jihad . Do you think your outlook would have won us WW2 , I mean surely not all Germans , Japanese or Italians were bad guys right ?

yeah, you probably could find ones that condone and promote jihad. no doubt in my mind, just like here during ww 2 you could find nazi sympathisers-such as charles lindbergh. or you could go to britain and talk to the duke of buckingham, the former king of england who abdicated. he liked hitler. i'd imagine i'd hate all nazis-that doesn't mean i'd hate all germans however.

my contention is that not all muslims are the terror-promoting, bomb-toting killers you think they are. as for ww 2, i would have wanted us to do any and everything necessary to defeat our enemies. my issue with you on THIS matter is that you view an entire group of people as our enemy. muslims aren't a country...are they? they're found everywhere, including here.
and keep in mind, i'm not a 'dove' by any means. i even joined the navy, and would go back if necessary. luckily there are younger and stronger folks who can do so for me, i'm afraid i'm past my prime.

[Riot]

So how are we supposed to view the enemy ? Are we to just view them as misunderstood people ?

The first thing would be to learn who the enemy is.

It's not "Muslims".

[Honu]

Originally Posted by Riot

The first thing would be to learn who the enemy is.

It's not "Muslims".

Ok well the lets see who they are , they are Afgans , Pakastanis , Iranians ,Africans , Iraqis, Saudis , Turks , and Palestinians and the common theme is Islam right?
Not all Germans were Nazi's and not all Japanese were Commikazis and not all Italians were Fascists but when you let some represent most then they most likely will be lumped in.
It is not out fault that terrorrists chose a most cowardly way to kill people but until their own people revolt against them then they leave themselves wide open to be assumed to be with them ,than against them.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

The first thing would be to learn who the enemy is.

It's not "Muslims".

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Danzig

http://www.theamericanmuslim.org/tam...d_terrorism_2/

http://www.islamdenouncesterrorism.com/

http://www.islamfortoday.com/terrorism.htm

http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1052203.html


that's just for starters. i suggest you do searches from now on on topics, rather than just taking whatever bad news you hear as gospel. also, keep in mind what sells newspapers and tv ads-usually blood, guts, gloom and doom.
and of course it helps 'us' fight a war when we demonize and dehumanize the enemy, right?

Where's the help in catching the scum that was in charge of the 9-11 killings? Talk is cheap. I will believe it when I see Muslim forces die fighting those who were in charge of 9-11.

[Riot]

Its not grand but they sure as hell dont represent themselves well , you know the peace loving one's , the ones we never hear from. Where are they ?Why arent they standing up against the people that they are allowing to speak the loudest for them ?

"They" are just like the overwhelming majority of their Christian or Jewish or Buddist or atheist fellow humans on this planet: they are going about their peaceful, moral lives, raising families, putting food on the table, working.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Riot

"They" are just like the overwhelming majority of their Christian or Jewish or Buddist or atheist fellow humans on this planet: they are going about their peaceful, moral lives, raising families, putting food on the table, working.

No, most Muslims see Muslims as superior. This is why they have no interest in going after Muslim terrorist groups that attack Non-Muslims. This is why Nato member Turkey will not send men into combat to catch AL Quaeda etc. Their words are as you say. Their actions always show their actual beliefs. We care about catching those that killed innocent people on 9-11. If they were "just like the overwhelming majority of their Christian or Jewish or Buddist or atheist fellow humans on this planet" then they would also want to go after al Quaeda, but I see almost no interest in it coming from these people.

[Riot]

No, most Muslims see Muslims as superior.

Funny.

My experience has been that it's some Christians who have the grandest superiority complex.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Riot

Funny.

My experience has been that it's some Christians who have the grandest superiority complex.

Well it doesn't surprise me, because you just ignored an obvious case where Muslims refused to go after Muslims that killed thousands of New Yorkers. You're gunna ignore what you want to ignore. The fact is Muslims typically see other Muslims as superior to others. They are refusing to shed blood to bring them to justice.

[Riot]

Well it doesn't surprise me, because you just ignored an obvious case where Muslims refused to go after Muslims that killed thousands of New Yorkers.

Unfortunately, one rather reaching example has nothing at all to do with how all the Muslims in the world can be predicted to act.

For example, let's take the Americans serving in our armed forces right now, the ones that are Muslim.

Do you think these Muslims should be kicked out of our armed forces, and not be allowed to serve in Iraq, Afghanistan? Certainly, by just being Muslim, they are a huge risk?

You're gunna ignore what you want to ignore. The fact is Muslims typically see other Muslims as superior to others.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Riot

Unfortunately, one rather reaching example has nothing at all to do with how all the Muslims in the world can be predicted to act.

For example, let's take the Americans serving in our armed forces right now, the ones that are Muslim.

Do you think these Muslims should be kicked out of our armed forces, and not be allowed to serve in Iraq, Afghanistan? Certainly, by just being Muslim, they are a huge risk?

Reaching example? Bringing the 9-11 terrorists to justice is not a reaching example. It's basic. You say they are like us? No, they aren't. Most Muslims aren't in favor of going after the terrorists that were in charge of 9-11. Tells me a lot more than this boundless tripe you people bring in here. We shouldn't be alone in wanting Al Quaeda to be caught, and punished. I'm tired of Muslim Bullshit like this, and those that overlook their 2- faced ways. You embarrass yourself. Open your eyes. There is a Muslim country with the 2nd largest army in NATO, and they refuse to die going after Al QUAEDA. SAYS A WHOLE LOT. Ain't a "reach." It's about Muslims refusing to go after fellow Muslims that knocked down buildings full of Americans. Such a great fkn religion, but they have no interest in catching scum that did stuff they say is against Islam. Muslims always get a pass like this. You say most Muslims are like us? No, we would go get these thugs if they were Christians that knocked down a Mosque full of Muslims. They refuse to do the same. They aren't like us, and I refuse to ever be like them.

"Turkey currently has a force of around 900 non-combat forces in the Afghan capital Kabul. But Washington has been pressing Ankara along with other NATO members to send combat troops to Afghanistan.
The chiefs of the Turkish armed forces and government officials are mindful that public opinion is unenthusiastic."


Your tripe will be believable when I see these people bring fellow Muslims to justice(for killing innocent American People on 9-11.) That's when they become like me. Now go charge someone $200 for a fkn rabbies shot, and 1-minute look at an animal.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Riot

Funny.

My experience has been that it's some Christians who have the grandest superiority complex.

thats true too! But they dont rape their wives, they just have their Priests rape children.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Riot

"They" are just like the overwhelming majority of their Christian or Jewish or Buddist or atheist fellow humans on this planet: they are going about their peaceful, moral lives, raising families, putting food on the table, working.

"Avoid using your left hand while eating unless you are left-handed, though you may use it to peel fruits or separate meat from bones. In any case make sure that your left hand does not carry any food up to your mouth (due to explicit and strict cautioning against this in the Sunnah").


Now, you say they are like us. When's the last time you smacked a kid around for eating left-handed? I can bring someone in here, and he will tell you he got smacked around pretty good for eating left-handed (gee..he's left-handed...big surprise that he wanted to use his left hand.) All this because their proph thought people wouldn't overeat so much if they had to use just one hand to eat with.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

"Avoid using your left hand while eating unless you are left-handed, though you may use it to peel fruits or separate meat from bones. In any case make sure that your left hand does not carry any food up to your mouth (due to explicit and strict cautioning against this in the Sunnah").


Now, you say they are like us. When's the last time you smacked a kid around for eating left-handed? I can bring someone in here, and he will tell you he got smacked around pretty good for eating left-handed (gee..he's left-handed...big surprise that he wanted to use his left hand.) All this because their proph thought people wouldn't overeat so much if they had to use just one hand to eat with.

Sorry - I just can't accept the above as proof that all Muslims are terrorists out to get the United States.

The bolded part? Where did you get that information from?

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Riot

Sorry - I just can't accept the above as proof that all Muslims are terrorists out to get the United States.

The bolded part? Where did you get that information from?

It's not proof that anyone is a terrorist. It's a response to you saying:

"They are just like the overwhelming majority of their Christian or Jewish or Buddist or atheist fellow humans on this planet"


http://www.islamtoday.com/show_detai...main_cat_id=14

http://www.scribd.com/doc/1503918/Is...g-and-Drinking

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

It's not proof that anyone is a terrorist. It's a response to you saying:

"They are just like the overwhelming majority of their Christian or Jewish or Buddist or atheist fellow humans on this planet"


http://www.islamtoday.com/show_detai...main_cat_id=14

http://www.scribd.com/doc/1503918/Is...g-and-Drinking

my uncle went to catholic school and got smacked around by the nuns for being left-handed.
and yes, i'd think many muslims are just like many christians or jews, they want to live their life and be left alone. it's the few zealots in each of those religions, or the few criminals who happen to be catholic, jewish, etc, who give the rest of 'them' a bad name. i don't really think anyone believes that EVERY roman catholic priest molests children, do they? but EVERY muslim is a terrorist?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

"Avoid using your left hand while eating unless you are left-handed, though you may use it to peel fruits or separate meat from bones. In any case make sure that your left hand does not carry any food up to your mouth (due to explicit and strict cautioning against this in the Sunnah").


Now, you say they are like us. When's the last time you smacked a kid around for eating left-handed? I can bring someone in here, and he will tell you he got smacked around pretty good for eating left-handed (gee..he's left-handed...big surprise that he wanted to use his left hand.) All this because their proph thought people wouldn't overeat so much if they had to use just one hand to eat with.

'they' are just like some of us. you for instance. you blindly hate turks, you think they blindly hate you. not so different at all. the difference comes in where you don't feel the need to blow yourself up along with some of the people you hate, while some of them get to that point.

i do find something else odd. what we label terrorism. i think the guys going out and shooting up scores of folks before killing themselves should be referred to as such. oh.....but that would label some of us here, non-muslims, as terrorists wouldn't it? but it's the same thing-guy gets angry and decides to take out as many others as he can before dying. just with guns instead of bombs. just as random, and just as hard to stop before it happens.


at any rate, no minds will be changed i'm sure. this is most likely an exercise in futility....