Hey Vic Stauffer..........

[SCUDSBROTHER]

[quote=eajinabi]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

I never said its ok to cheat. You said hes a common crook but his winning percent says otherwise.

Yea, he kind of specializes in getting claimers to run pretty good in stakes. Notice that? Look at him get that Optional Claimer Modification to come within what? A length of Grade 2 winner Life is Sweet last Sunday? There's a lot of them. What about the horse who had it's nose in front of Cowboy Cal in early January? Almost won that huh? That's after Baffert gave up. Mandella thought Peace Chant was worth just $62,500, but O'neil showed him the horse can win that much in one damn race with him..(miracle.!!)

[eajinabi]

[quote=SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by eajinabi

Yea, he kind of specializes in getting claimers to run pretty good in stakes. Notice that? Look at him get that Optional Claimer Modification to come within what? A length of Grade 2 winner Life is Sweet last Sunday? There's a lot of them. What about the horse who had it's nose in front of Cowboy Cal in early January? Almost won that huh? That's after Baffert gave up. Mandella thought Peace Chant was worth just $62,500, but O'neil showed him the horse can win that much in one damn race with him..(miracle.!!)

Its not like that horse who came second in the cowboy cal registered triple digit beyers. i will be surprised he cracked 90 on that run. What did he do in his next race?? nothing.

Peace Chant did win last weekend but where did he win it at??? Turf Paradise. Who did he run against??? Other former ALW OC.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

[quote=eajinabi]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Its not like that horse who came second in the cowboy cal registered triple digit beyers. i will be surprised he cracked 90 on that run. What did he do in his next race?? nothing.

Peace Chant did win last weekend but where did he win it at??? Turf Paradise. Who did he run against??? Other former ALW OC.

I think the horse is called INFORMED, and Baffert put him in for what 25k-50k claiming? It had a 22k purse. Now it's running 2nd to Cowboy Cal, and ahead of Magnum. Those 2 came right back to win graded stakes, O.K. ?
Peace Chant couldn't beat 62,500 claimers, but (with Oneil's potions) could beat Machismo(who just ran a nice 2nd to Georgie Boy...A length off In Summation before that.) I'm still waiting for the explanation on Modification being pretty close to winning that Grade 2 last Sunday. What did Modification beat the week before? Caramel Coffee?

[eajinabi]

[quote=SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by eajinabi

I think the horse is called INFORMED, and Baffert put him in for what 25k-50k claiming? It had a 22k purse. Now it's running 2nd to Cowboy Cal, and ahead of Magnum. Those 2 came right back to win graded stakes, O.K. ?
Peace Chant couldn't beat 62,500 claimers, but (with Oneil's potions) could beat Machismo(who just ran a nice 2nd to Georgie Boy...A length off In Summation before that.) I'm still waiting for the explanation on Modification being pretty close to winning that Grade 2 last Sunday. What did Modification beat the week before? Caramel Coffee?

Not to sound like a Monday morning QB but...

Its not like Magnum and Cowboy Cal are popping in the Beyer numbers themselves (sad to think these are your two favorites for the SA Cap). Its not that Informed hasnt run in graded company before. He ran in the Goodwood and ran with the likes of Casino Drive, Monzante and Dakota Phone in the past in ALW races. None of these types were running in the San Pasqual.

Didnt Machismo run in ALW OC just in October himself in Calder? Ran in 2 graded since being in the hands of Sadler and he ran well (can you accuse Sadler the same thing you are accusing Oneil of?)
Peace chant did have back class in him. Better than any horse he ran against at TuP.

Moderation did not win, did not come second, did not come third. sHe came fourth and basically flattened out when she tried to make a run. The others behind him in that race was shittier than him.

Why am I defending Oneil because
There definetley are other trainers who seek your attention when it comes to cheating. Show me a legit Dutrow, Asmussen, Scott Lake, Mitchell, Sadler winner in recent years. These are the +25% winning trainers who magically convert horses into superstars.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

[quote=eajinabi]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Why am I defending Oneil because
There definetley are other trainers who seek your attention when it comes to cheating. Show me a legit Dutrow, Asmussen, Scott Lake, Mitchell, Sadler winner in recent years. These are the +25% winning trainers who magically convert horses into superstars.

Mitchell, O'neil, and Mullins have each been caught atleast twice with high CO2. That's unacceptable, and they should be gone(period.) Tired of this crap. Just get rid of them. Fkn stealing from others(period.) As it is, they test for way too high a threshold, and then say"we only got 2 positives last year." Well, yea, because you're too fkn corrupt to test from 34-37mmol co2. As it is they want to do less testing due to expense(corrupt cubed.)

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Sadler is trying every way to cheat that he can. Was supposed to stop using steroids on July 1st, and kept using until his barn got raided. Basically, wasn't gunna stop cheating until they starting fining him etc. He, Cerin, and Mitchell have the most violations of meds. Mitchell kept using steroids well into August as well. Those 2 don't really seem to care (they know they can just pay a fine.) Mitchell gets caught doing all kind of stuff n' always just gets a fine. It's unbelievable. It's sick. They need to clean it up. Start being able to cap horses again.

[eajinabi]

[quote=SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by eajinabi

Mitchell, O'neil, and Mullins have each been caught atleast twice with high CO2. That's unacceptable, and they should be gone(period.) Tired of this crap. Just get rid of them. Fkn stealing from others(period.) As it is, they test for way too high a threshold, and then say"we only got 2 positives last year." Well, yea, because you're too fkn corrupt to test from 34-37mmol co2. As it is they want to do less testing due to expense(corrupt cubed.)

Well Scuds, that is the sad reality of this game. Honestly, as a bettor, we dont really notice the infractions caused by these trainers. All we see is who is training big and we just ride thier wave and bet them.

I agree thier SHOULD be much more harsh punishments for these trainers but the industry wont do anything about it. Why? I do not know. This has been going on pretty much since the 70's but more prevalent now. Its a cancer

[Philip]

[quote=SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by eajinabi

I think the horse is called INFORMED, and Baffert put him in for what 25k-50k claiming? It had a 22k purse. Now it's running 2nd to Cowboy Cal, and ahead of Magnum. Those 2 came right back to win graded stakes, O.K. ?
Peace Chant couldn't beat 62,500 claimers, but (with Oneil's potions) could beat Machismo(who just ran a nice 2nd to Georgie Boy...A length off In Summation before that.) I'm still waiting for the explanation on Modification being pretty close to winning that Grade 2 last Sunday. What did Modification beat the week before? Caramel Coffee?

Informed was claimed last summer. Its not like he was just claimed and immediately moved way up. Maybe he had physical issues that are being handled better now. Why is it so surprising that a $500,000 purchase ran well? The winner only had a mid 90s beyer anyways.

Did you bother to look at what Peace Chant's record is on dirt? And by the way he ran 107 beyer in the past as well. This horse has an awesome pedigree. A $900,000 purchase. Again not surprising when placed on his best surface that he ran well.

Modification was not even close to winning that race. Finished 4th not 2nd.

Before you go ripping somebody you might want to have your facts straight.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

[quote=Philip]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Informed was claimed last summer. Its not like he was just claimed and immediately moved way up. Maybe he had physical issues that are being handled better now. Why is it so surprising that a $500,000 purchase ran well? The winner only had a mid 90s beyer anyways.

Did you bother to look at what Peace Chant's record is on dirt? And by the way he ran 107 beyer in the past as well. This horse has an awesome pedigree. A $900,000 purchase. Again not surprising when placed on his best surface that he ran well.

Modification was not even close to winning that race. Finished 4th not 2nd.

Before you go ripping somebody you might want to have your facts straight.

Modification didn't lose by much.

http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqbP...&RACE=A&BorP=B

Goes from optional claiming to being about a length off LIFE IS SWEET.
You 're all enabling a known cheater. This is why nothing gets done. Your so used to cheating trainers that you don't care. Mandella dropped Peace Chant down, because he was struggling. He woke up because he went to a cheater(you can't deny he is a cheater.) There are 3 ways to mask cheating: change surface, blinkers, and put a leading rider on. That's three reasons a cheater can use. You just used one of them. Honu works for Mandella. Lets hear her opinion on how a horse who ran 6th for $62,500 is CRUSHING IN A 100K STAKES(He never won a stakes of any sort for Mandella.) You're saying Mandella gave away a stakes horse. I don't think so. They lost about 700k right? See what she says. TO BE HONEST, HE CHEATED TWICE, AND HE SHOULD BE GONE. I don't know why people want cheaters in their game. It's stupid. This is the problem with the game. New people aren't gunna bet if they aren't sure it's honest. It sure isn't honest. You let a guy get two HIGH CO2 violations, and just send him out there to do it again. He just made 60k in one damn race. What's a $7500 fine every couple years? Nothing. I understand he has a charming regular guy personality. O.K.? I GET IT, BUT HE IS A CHEATER. People didn't believe me about him on the ESPN BOARD, and after 2 high co2 violations, they still don't want to believe it. Get it straight. He cheats.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

[quote=Philip]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Before you go ripping somebody you might want to have your facts straight.

You know what facts should matter here? You're trying to put a bib on a cheater that's already been caught twice running over 37mmole CO2. We shouldn't be talking about him. He shouldn't be allowed to train. The only reason he is still training here is because of a complete lack of ethics out here. All these guys who have been caught milkshaking twice should be gone.

[Antitrust32]

[quote=SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by eajinabi

I think the horse is called INFORMED, and Baffert put him in for what 25k-50k claiming? It had a 22k purse. Now it's running 2nd to Cowboy Cal, and ahead of Magnum. Those 2 came right back to win graded stakes, O.K. ?
Peace Chant couldn't beat 62,500 claimers, but (with Oneil's potions) could beat Machismo(who just ran a nice 2nd to Georgie Boy...A length off In Summation before that.) I'm still waiting for the explanation on Modification being pretty close to winning that Grade 2 last Sunday. What did Modification beat the week before? Caramel Coffee?

you know horse racing sucks when Cowboy Cal is winning graded races.

[jballscalls]

doesn't every rider make mistakes at some point?? and if you stay to the rail and save ground, your going to get burned and stopped once in a while. Sometimes i'd rather have guys save ground than go out into the 5 path all the time (see too much of that at PM)

Lots of haters on here, everyone's entitled to their opinion. Vic and Joel, keep up your success guys!

[Left Bank]

When I need a good laugh,I know I can always count on The Derby Trail forum and its cast of idiots to provide one for me.This thread has been hilarious!!Thanks guys.

[Honu]

Peace Chant was entered in the Barrets sale with a bunch of Jess Jacksons horses , Mandella got more money for the horse than he would have brought at auction. The horse was leaving the barn one way or another , be it at the sale or a claiming race, so there you have the whole scoop, let the crap slinging continue.

[Pedigree Ann]

[quote=SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by eajinabi

Yea, he kind of specializes in getting claimers to run pretty good in stakes. Notice that? Look at him get that Optional Claimer Modification to come within what? A length of Grade 2 winner Life is Sweet last Sunday? There's a lot of them. What about the horse who had it's nose in front of Cowboy Cal in early January? Almost won that huh? That's after Baffert gave up. Mandella thought Peace Chant was worth just $62,500, but O'neil showed him the horse can win that much in one damn race with him..(miracle.!!)

Optional claiming races are allowance races with one extra condition, allowing horses who have already cleared the condition to run, if they will go in for a tag. Allowance races are used by trainers to test their horses, to see if they are good enough to take the next step up, to stakes races. So for a horse to go from an allowance race (especially off a win) to run decently in a stakes race is not unprecedented. What had Life is Sweet won before the El Encino last out? A maiden and a n1x allowance.

As to Peace Chant, his stakes record reads - At 3 2nd San Vicente H (G2); At 4 2nd Los Angeles H (G3); At 6 won Phoenix Gold Cup. He looks like another Arson Squad, a horse whose form slipped when synthetics were installed and who woke up again when on real dirt. He's only managed a few starts a year so is obviously fragile, but he has shown flashes of brilliance in the past. Not surprising when you realize that Safely Kept is his mum.

[blackthroatedwind]

Somebody slam a pie in her face.

[10 pnt move up]

[quote=SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by eajinabi

Yea, he kind of specializes in getting claimers to run pretty good in stakes. Notice that? Look at him get that Optional Claimer Modification to come within what? A length of Grade 2 winner Life is Sweet last Sunday? There's a lot of them. What about the horse who had it's nose in front of Cowboy Cal in early January? Almost won that huh? That's after Baffert gave up. Mandella thought Peace Chant was worth just $62,500, but O'neil showed him the horse can win that much in one damn race with him..(miracle.!!)

I am not going to defend Oneill but Peace Chant made all the sense in the world in the Phoenix Gold Cup from many handicapping angles.

1. he was going back to dirt
2. he is a much better sprinter than router
3. Oneill footed the bill to go all the way to Phx with his own horse
4. That really was not much more of a field then the 62 claimer he was just in

I posted these all the thread for those stakes at Tup last week and bet this horse.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Since it wasn't a graded stakes, they probably don't have to give them the "super tests" that the graded stakes committee mandates. Do they even test CO2 levels at Turf Paradise? He probably took him over there to skirt something. He might of liked dirt more, but he most likely took him there to cheat. He's twice been caught. He's probably cheated 200x for each instance that he's been caught. Not like they're really looking very hard.