"Jockey"

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by dean smith

Why does everyone think that showing horses wiping out in the promo is such a terrible thing? I think it's hilarious every time I hear someone on the show moan that breakdowns and Eight Belle-type situations are what's turning fans off to the game. I think they're way off. I know this sounds insensitive, but I truly believe the average sports fan out there couldn't care less about the health of horses. From my experience as a racing enthusiast surrounded by rabid sports fans who care nothing about horse racing, I find what keeps my friends from getting into racing is 1) the sport suffers from image problems relating to it's seedy gambling/fixing reputation, 2) it is only heard from during Triple Crown season (and only then until the Derby winner loses) and sometimes the Breeder's Cup, allowing it to gain zero momentum with sports fans. Most people understand that breakdowns are a rare occurance and that sometimes euthanasia is necessary. They understand and they just don't care. The only people who seem to care are that tiny vocal minority of ill-informed idiots like PETA and Moon Beam and the Granola Kids -- people who's opinion are taken far to seriously and kow-towed to far too often in this country anyway. Sane people don't give a damn what these groups say.

At any rate, I think showing horses wiping out, and thus, showing how perilous and exciting the life of a jockey can be will only assure more people tuning in to see the show. And whether people are interested or disgusted by what they see, their thoughts will be on it, and at least the game will be promoted. There is no such thing as bad publicity. Besides, people want to see that sort of thing anyway. NASCAR has done an amazing job over the years getting people to watch and become fans with the promise that there will be crashes.

This is a whole other topic, but I think horse racing could do a lot for itself by taking a good look at what NASCAR has done. It's taken a sport suffering from major stigmas (it was too "red neck" and "Southern" for many, much like betting on animals is considered degenerate in many circles) and made it bigger than Jesus. Ah, I'm not going to get into it. I've rambled on long enough. They're going to kick me out of here.

on what do you base this? a lot of people attribute the loss in fans to the ruffian match race. if you think folks don't care, i believe you're mistaken. witness the amount of time spent on trying to get rid of horse slaughter in this country, and the constant battles over mustangs. this country loves their horses.

for a better take on why many don't follow racing....a lot of people don't gamble-and they connect horse racing only to that, not as entertainment. i think showing these breakdowns is a terrible thing, in that they will probably show a far higher percentage of breakdowns on that show vs races run without incident, thereby giving the impression that breakdowns are fairly common-far more common than what really occurs.

[blackthroatedwind]

If you didn't follow racing, and watched that show ( I know, that's impossible, but just stay with me for a second ), you would think a horse breaks down every race.

I fail to see how that's a good thing ( forgetting about how inaccurate it is as well ).

Using our game to cater to the audience this, apparently, wants to capture, eludes me as a good idea for racing. There is a lot of great stuff in the game, a lot of great human interest stories as well, but breakdowns isn't one of them ( at least to me ).

I would rather be ignored than used in that manner.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

If you didn't follow racing, and watched that show ( I know, that's impossible, but just stay with me for a second ), you would think a horse breaks down every race.

I fail to see how that's a good thing ( forgetting about how inaccurate it is as well ).

Using our game to cater to the audience this, apparently, wants to capture, eludes me as a good idea for racing. There is a lot of great stuff in the game, a lot of great human interest stories as well, but breakdowns isn't one of them ( at least to me ).

I would rather be ignored than used in that manner.

Back to the 30 sec promo/tease which had 3 horses going down...I think people are more accepting of humans cartwheeling down some sh.it hole NASCAR track in Padooka than watching a horse go down. I really think Animal Planet needs to look in the mirror
in

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by GBBob

Back to the 30 sec promo/tease which had 3 horses going down...I think people are more accepting of humans cartwheeling down some sh.it hole NASCAR track in Padooka than watching a horse go down. I really think Animal Planet needs to look in the mirror
in

Bob, did you nod off at the keyboard mid-sentence?

[Scav]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

If you didn't follow racing, and watched that show ( I know, that's impossible, but just stay with me for a second ), you would think a horse breaks down every race.

I fail to see how that's a good thing ( forgetting about how inaccurate it is as well ).

Using our game to cater to the audience this, apparently, wants to capture, eludes me as a good idea for racing. There is a lot of great stuff in the game, a lot of great human interest stories as well, but breakdowns isn't one of them ( at least to me ).

I would rather be ignored than used in that manner.

I agree with this. AP shouldn't be using the breakdowns as part of the advertising. I probably should have worded my agreement better because agreeing with dean smith on horse racing is a bad idea. College basketball maybe but not horse racing

[Riot]

Guess it didn't work using crashes to show the razor-edge of danger a jockey walks on every single race. Too distracting to viewers worrying rather about the animal involved.

Who was the race writer that wrote, a couple years ago, that nobody should be allowed through a racetrack turnstile unless they were carrying $200 to drop at the windows that day? Anybody remember that, I'd like to re-read it.

[Merlinsky]

I wonder if Santa Anita said they could only film if they agreed not to show spills where the horse brokedown and had to be euthanized? Someone might've had the sense to bar that. I mean it's not like Animal Planet's entitled to show it, SA's private and AP's not a news channel.

About NASCAR and the wrecks, I don't think it's like hockey where people get excited about fights. When there's a wreck, a lot of fans get upset cuz if their driver isn't in it, maybe his chances got compromised by it. Believe me a lot of them know where he needs to finish to not lose a spot in the points system and if some loser knocks them out of it by wrecking, the fans swear a blood oath to hate them for life.

[FGFan]

As a queen of lobbying against PETA and almost any animal RIGHTS (please note key word rights, I absolutely support animal welfare)...I truly thought I would hate this show, especially after the commercials.

However I am quite pleasantly surpised with the outcome. Every horse that fell, got up and ran away. I thought this was going to be bunny huggers haven(bunny huggers=animal rights nuts)...to advocate yet another agenda to bring about the end of horse racing. It wasn't.

I have to disagree that this was a disparging show on the industry, breathing a great sigh of relief....maybe from an insiders view it was lacking and may not attract people to come to watch and bet. But it did not show as it a cruel and inhumane sport. I am relieved after watching the first 2 episodes, we shall see at it develops, but it seems the concentration is really on the jockeys and not horses breaking down.

Unfortunately there are no politcal groups that reap millions of dollars on the exploitation of humans, just animals..so the drama of jocks being hurt just doesn't create an agenda for the animal rights nuts.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

for a better take on why many don't follow racing....a lot of people don't gamble-and they connect horse racing only to that, not as entertainment.

To some people in the sport, the horseplayers and gambling are all that matters. Casual fans, fans of the horses, "Barbaro followers", etc. - don't bother, not good for racing, they need not be encouraged or developed. (I completely disagree with that, btw)

PBR focuses on the animals as athletes, gives details on the riders - and there are certainly terrible crashes - but the sport is thriving, as the average fan can readily know about the participants - human and animal. Someone gets hurt badly, and the focus is turned on Dr. Tandy, sportsmed, what they can do, etc. (like the AAEP vets at big race days)

I agree with the NASCAR success model - heck, even I know lots of the names associated with NASCAR, and that's only from casual contact when it floats into my field of vision against my choice.

People don't even know what most jockey's faces look like. Haven't seen the Animal Planet program, but I agree that there is (nearly always) no bad PR, only PR.

Too bad the average racetrack program didn't have a few pages devoted to photos of the jockeys and trainers, with short bios.

[AeWingnut]

I disagree with people that believe in fireworks displays or having the bay city rollers playing in the infield somehow help the sport. I say advertise the life altering amount of money you can win playing the horses.... or is it life altering amounts of money you can lose

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Danzig

for a better take on why many don't follow racing....a lot of people don't gamble-and they connect horse racing only to that, not as entertainment.

More like they connect the sports excessively high takeout to mean that the game is total suckerbait.

Impossible to beat - and not worth the time invested to learn.

22% of US adult males between the ages of 18-49 play fantasy sports. Most are hardcore nerds who are obsessed with numbers and stats. These types are more likely to gamble on poker than horse racing by a tremendously wide margin.

It's information based gambling just like with the stock market or fantasy sports .. and I think a lot of people understand that. What they might not understand is that the sport is not impossible to beat .. and you can make a living from beating it .. but it is tougher than hell .. and anyone talented/crazy enough to do it consistantly could probably make at least double doing something else.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

More like they connect the sports excessively high takeout to mean that the game is total suckerbait.

Impossible to beat - and not worth the time invested to learn.

22% of US adult males between the ages of 18-49 play fantasy sports. Most are hardcore nerds who are obsessed with numbers and stats. These types are more likely to gamble on poker than horse racing by a tremendously wide margin.

It's information based gambling just like with the stock market or fantasy sports .. and I think a lot of people understand that. What they might not understand is that the sport is not impossible to beat .. and you can make a living from beating it .. but it is tougher than hell .. and anyone talented/crazy enough to do it consistantly could probably make at least double doing something else.

they had a survey on espn that i partook in yesterday. one question was on gambling-i was shocked to see that a much larger % then i expected said that they never gambled. it was easily as high as those who say they play fantasy sports, but most opted for the free leagues.
personally, i prefer horse racing gambling FAR more than any thing else- i feel i have a better shot by reading the form, while many others seem to prefer the randomness of choosing the right slot machine or video poker machine to sit in front of, zombielike, and feed quarters into the slot. i went to a casino once, years ago, and hated it. of course i didn't try any card games-but i doubt i ever go back to see if i could play those.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i went to a casino once, years ago, and hated it. of course i didn't try any card games-but i doubt i ever go back to see if i could play those.

Casino gambling does nothing at all for me either. I guess craps is kinda fun if you're really drunk - know some people at the table - and aren't losing.

It would be fun to beat the casinos silly as a cheat ... I love watching the breaking vegas shows when they're on.

[-BT-]

let's stick to the show here people

what i learned this week:

mike smith looks like he's 65
chantel is hotter then i previously thought
kayla stra is fighting an uphill battle, and her agent kind skeeves me out
joe talamo is really only 18, and has a cool accent
aaron gryder ............
i had no clue go go was soo cocky
where did jeff mullins' mullet go?

i think its gonna be a goo show

-bt-

[smuthg]

Originally Posted by -BT-

let's stick to the show here people

what i learned this week:


chantel is hotter then i previously thought

-bt-

oh, so hot...

[letswastemoney]

Chantel isn't that hot.....

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by -BT-

joe talamo is really only 18, and has a cool accent

Given the recent hype for Christian Bale in all his f'ing glory, Joe should really look into parlaying this raised profile, his short stature, and his accent into a remake of Newsies. Arise and seize the day!

Originally Posted by TheSpyder

In the same way American Idol (whether you like it or not) takes unknowns and over the season makes raving fans for many of them, Jockeys in a small way can do similar. Will it produce new fans? Maybe, but I think it will move a small segment of the population, whether they be new or exisiting players, closer to the sport and not away.

Too bad the % of people watching the show was most likely very small. I wonder how many did see it and what the reaction was.

Nobody found this amusing in the context of jockeys being short? Ok, just me. Eh.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Casino gambling does nothing at all for me either. I guess craps is kinda fun if you're really drunk - know some people at the table - and aren't losing.

It would be fun to beat the casinos silly as a cheat ... I love watching the breaking vegas shows when they're on.

we've watched them a few times-amusing how bad some of the cheats are-and how brazen! guys just reaching into little old ladies cups when their backs are turned. it's unbelievable.

i talk up horse racing all the time-i'm determined to increase the # of visitors as much as possible.
as for betting-i enjoy the mental exercise of trying to find a winner, and i hope to get better at it.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Casino gambling does nothing at all for me either. I guess craps is kinda fun if you're really drunk - know some people at the table - and aren't losing.

It would be fun to beat the casinos silly as a cheat ... I love watching the breaking vegas shows when they're on.

It's much much easier to get a longterm edge at blackjack or video poker than at horseracing. No comparison. Granted, if you can beat horseracing it's way more interesting and way more pleasant. Casinos are not fond of good blackjack players, and they're not crazy about people who capitalize on weaknesses in their machine games, either. Expert cappers don't have to deal with casino hostility.

--Dunbar

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

It's much much easier to get a longterm edge at blackjack or video poker than at horseracing. No comparison. Granted, if you can beat horseracing it's way more interesting and way more pleasant. Casinos are not fond of good blackjack players, and they're not crazy about people who capitalize on weaknesses in their machine games, either. Expert cappers don't have to deal with casino hostility.

--Dunbar

i didn't care for the atmosphere at the casino either. lights, bells and whistles...just seemed mindless. you just sit there and hit buttons. not my thing at all.