Pletcher BC positive; Hearing pending

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by CSC

Now I am wracking my brain, it wasn't Silent Emotion that I know, it was before that, Court was the rider and the horse wired the field in a turf route race. I think it paid 9-1, now I don't know why I remember those details but not the horse.

No Deadline maybe?

[Riot]

The RMTC has disbanded. There is no need for it. Hundreds of thousands of dollars, and years of tedious research, are saved.

Horseplayers on the internet will now officially decide which trainers are juicers, and which horses have been doped.

Voting will be done fans, from their home computers via a soon-to-be-announced website.

Voting will close the Monday after a weekend of racing, at midnight.

Trainer suspensions will be announced by noon every Tuesday.

[docicu3]

Originally Posted by Riot

The RMTC has disbanded. There is no need for it. Hundreds of thousands of dollars, and years of tedious research, are saved.

Horseplayers on the internet will now officially decide which trainers are juicers, and which horses have been doped.

Voting will be done fans, from their home computers via a soon-to-be-announced website.

Voting will close the Monday after a weekend of racing, at midnight.

Trainer suspensions will be announced by noon every Tuesday.

Used to be that at the top of the stretch a TAP horse would look other horses in the eye and never back off they all had unbelievable saying power now they don't win even at rates it seems thet should....it's the owners that will drive the game when they take all the horses away.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Riot

The RMTC has disbanded. There is no need for it. Hundreds of thousands of dollars, and years of tedious research, are saved.

Horseplayers on the internet will now officially decide which trainers are juicers, and which horses have been doped.

Voting will be done fans, from their home computers via a soon-to-be-announced website.

Voting will close the Monday after a weekend of racing, at midnight.

Trainer suspensions will be announced by noon every Tuesday.

With all due respect, Please dont be ignorant Riot. None of the current drug tests can compete with the chemists.

And when a drug test can pick up a substance... those substances are altered so they can be used again with out detection.

Giving the trainers the benefit of the doubt is not the right way to go here..

[Riot]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Since you seem so sure, can you explain what has happened to Pletcher's stable? As has been mentioned here, by astute players, Pletcher's horses seemed to have multiple gears. Suddenly, they don't anymore. I'm not suggesting anything, but since you seem so sure about the point you are poorly making, what has changed exactly?

Sorry. Don't buy the premise, can't contribute to the bit.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Thought so.

Oh, please. You think most of what has been said on here regarding Pletcher's record and horses is "astute"?

I think most of it has the depth of considered analysis consistent with the average high-school student.

And the only thing you guys can come up with for a change in trainer performance over a few years is drugs?

Excuse me while I split a gut pealing over with laughter

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Interesting reading comprehension you have there. What I said was the people making the arguements were astute players. But I guess twisting words when you have no real arguement works also.

I'll ask again, what do you think the cause of the sudden drop off is? Did you happen to see the data I provided concerning Pletcher's grade 1 wins the last few years? How do you explain that? Bad luck? Not enough horses?

Pletchers downfall started right about when Presque Isle opened up, right?

Coincidence??????

I think this makes a lot of sense Riot!

[CSC]

For the record Todd Pletcher has already been suspended for 45 days by N.Y stewards for one of his horse's testing positive for mepivacaine, an anesthetic that has "a high potential to affect performance." in a race he won at Saratoga in 2004. Biancone, Dutrow, Lake and Asmussen are others that have all served notable suspensions(30 days to 1 year). I'll leave it up to each and every individual here to come up with their own conclusions who juices and who doesn't.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by CSC

For the record Todd Pletcher has already been suspended for 45 days by N.Y stewards for one of his horse's testing positive for mepivacaine, an anesthetic that has "a high potential to affect performance." in a race he won at Saratoga in 2004. Biancone, Dutrow, Lake and Asmussen are others that have all served notable suspensions(30 days to 1 year). I'll leave it up to each and every individual here to come up with their own conclusions who juices and who doesn't.

That's just mean and crazy talk man!

Until TP comes out and announces to the world that he is a juicer, I refuse to believe that it's even possible!

I refuse!!

No! No! No! No! NO!

Lalalalalalalala. I can't hearrrr youuuu!

[Riot]

Originally Posted by CSC

For the record Todd Pletcher has already been suspended for 45 days by N.Y stewards for one of his horse's testing positive for mepivacaine, an anesthetic that has "a high potential to affect performance." in a race he won at Saratoga in 2004..

But the tiny level found in Pletcher's horse wasn't enough to be able to affect performance. Today that same level is an allowable level under NY racing rules. See post 57.

Todd Pletcher could possibly be the biggest juicer in the business. But, as the guy has a completely inconsequential drug record to date, I'll reserve awarding him that title until he earns it.

Other trainers are currently far, far more deserving.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Interesting reading comprehension you have there. What I said was the people making the arguements were astute players. But I guess twisting words when you have no real arguement works also.

I'll ask again, what do you think the cause of the sudden drop off is? Did you happen to see the data I provided concerning Pletcher's grade 1 wins the last few years? How do you explain that? Bad luck? Not enough horses?

I guess you could just re-read my previous post.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Riot

I guess you could just re-read my previous post.

I just did and now I have a sudden urge to bet every offspring of Giant's Causeway.

Thanks.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

I just did and now I have a sudden urge to bet every offspring of Giant's Causeway.

Thanks.

Golf clap..

[philcski]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

So you think the huge drop off in grade 1 wins this year is just a coincidence?

Since the number of G1's is a limited sample size, you can argue that part of it is coincidence but I think his overall statistics (graded stakes, maiden, anything) is definitely NOT coincidence.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

So you think the huge drop off in grade 1 wins this year is just a coincidence?

While I generally agree that Pletchers horses seem to be mortal once again the graded wins numbers are pretty circumstantial. I have often said here that judging "juicers" on the times they are caught is not really that accurate of a measure. A really good burgler who doesnt get caught is still a criminal.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

While I generally agree that Pletchers horses seem to be mortal once again the graded wins numbers are pretty circumstantial. I have often said here that judging "juicers" on the times they are caught is not really that accurate of a measure. A really good burgler who doesnt get caught is still a criminal.

MAKUTUS!!!!

Nice win yesterday

[Danzig]

and people wonder why some cheat-look at the constant harping on pletcher right now. maybe he wasn't clean, and is now-if so, good for him. or maybe he was clean all along, but had better stock. or maybe he sold his soul, and then changed his mind. who knows?
but i think it's bizarre that he gets tons of grief, with what-two positives now, one for an antiboiotic, the other for a level now legal? meanwhile, the man with 13 X's more the positives is said to be the eclipse fave, and no one says a thing.

[reese]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

And I totally get that. Maybe it is just a coincidence, but as Phil alluded to, and The Fat Man earlier, the way his horses are running is different. And, while it might just be a coincidence, that's a huge dropoff, by anyone standards.

Pletcher is second in the country in 2008 in purses won.
Exactly, what does this "big drop" off include...only G-1 races ?


2008 Stats:
Starts
1056
1st-2nd-3rd
199-143-136
Earnings (Rank)
$13,765,935 (2)
Win % (In-The-Money %)
18% (45%)

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

And I totally get that. Maybe it is just a coincidence, but as Phil alluded to, and The Fat Man earlier, the way his horses are running is different. And, while it might just be a coincidence, that's a huge dropoff, by anyone standards.

Very true. I have noticed that he is not getting as good as horses as he was though. In 2004 and 2005 almost every really good horse sold at the Keeneland sale that stayed in the us went to Pletcher. Things have turned in that respect though. In some respects the same thing happened to baffert a few years earlier. A lot of big owners got tired of being second fiddle in the barn and moved. The combination of things may finally be catching up.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

So you think the huge drop off in grade 1 wins this year is just a coincidence?

I think that I am an outsider to Pletcher's organization, and I don't have access to remotely enough information to make even a half-azzed guess. The drop in G1 wins at best is a symptom. Not a diagnosis.