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  #1  
Old 12-05-2008, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by CSC
Don't know if it would affect his participation in next years BC, however Todd's fall from grace has been ongoing for awhile now, I think anyone who watched Gulfstream Park in 2008 kind of had the feeling this wasn't the same Pletcher profile that pretty much decimated the competition from previous years. Incredible considering he still had most wins for a trainer this winter.
Actually it could be traced back to Saratoga '07, where he had an off meet (Lawyer Ron excluded) but everyone kind of wrote it off as his stock being depleted. Maybe there's more to the story there.
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  #2  
Old 12-05-2008, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by philcski
Actually it could be traced back to Saratoga '07, where he had an off meet (Lawyer Ron excluded) but everyone kind of wrote it off as his stock being depleted. Maybe there's more to the story there.
Yes, I remember that also. I believe there is another high profile trainer that also slowed down or returned to earth at about this time. Since I want to post responsibly I won't mention his name, but it's easy to figure out who I am thinking of, he's known to train for a well known Saudi Owner.
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  #3  
Old 12-05-2008, 12:22 PM
Antitrust32 Antitrust32 is offline
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the best trainers in the past how many years are the guys with the best chemists.

Maybe that is why we had to take two semesters of Chemistry for the Race Track Industry Program degree...
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  #4  
Old 12-05-2008, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by the_fat_man
The dude had some of the best clients around and was/is juicing. What else is there to say?

Any doubt he was juicing during his 'glory' period?

Another cheater.
None. Been saying this for a long time.

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Originally Posted by CSC
Yes, I remember that also. I believe there is another high profile trainer that also slowed down or returned to earth at about this time. Since I want to post responsibly I won't mention his name, but it's easy to figure out who I am thinking of, he's known to train for a well known Saudi Owner.
KMc? Doubtful. His winning profile is consistent with the stock that he has.
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  #5  
Old 12-05-2008, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by philcski
None. Been saying this for a long time.



KMc? Doubtful. His winning profile is consistent with the stock that he has.
Phil, it's the the other one, out west until recently. He splits stables.
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  #6  
Old 12-05-2008, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by CSC
Phil, it's the the other one, out west until recently. He splits stables.
Hmmm... I'm stumped. Back to the drawing board.


Thanks for clarifying- I have the utmost respect for KMc, by the way. One of the few high % trainers I am 98% sure is not utilizing illegal chemistry.
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  #7  
Old 12-05-2008, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by philcski
Hmmm... I'm stumped. Back to the drawing board.


Thanks for clarifying- I have the utmost respect for KMc, by the way. One of the few high % trainers I am 98% sure is not utilizing illegal chemistry.
Dont make assumptions about who is and isnt "juicing". You would be surprised by some of the names that never appear in the papers and seemingly get a pass....
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  #8  
Old 12-06-2008, 04:54 PM
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Dont make assumptions about who is and isnt "juicing". You would be surprised by some of the names that never appear in the papers and seemingly get a pass....
Yeah, agreed... which is why I hedged myself later and said "nobody should get a free pass"...
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  #9  
Old 12-05-2008, 12:46 PM
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Before this turns into the Ox Bow Incident, be aware that the violation is for Penicillin G Procaine, a Class 3 violation. This is a routine antibiotic used regularly with horses for a million reasons. It is not something that is going to enhance performance.

What is stunning about this is how stupid a thing it is for the Pletcher barn to have been using in close proximity to a major event. It is amazing that a guy who runs a business like Pletcher, would allow use of Penicillin G Procaine near one of his Breeders' Cup scheduled runners even 45 or 60 days out.

And scheduled withdrawl for it is 15 days...

This isn't 'cheating'.. It's sloppiness.
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  #10  
Old 12-05-2008, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Kasept
Before this turns into the Ox Bow Incident, be aware that the violation is for Penicillin G Procaine, a Class 3 violation. This is a routine antibiotic used regularly with horses for a million reasons. It is not something that is going to enhance performance.

What is stunning about this is how stupid a thing it is for the Pletcher barn to have been using in close proximity to a major event. It is amazing that a guy who runs a business like Pletcher, would allow use of Penicillin G Procaine near one of his Breeders' Cup scheduled runners even 45 or 60 days out.

And scheduled withdrawl for it is 15 days...

This isn't 'cheating'.. It's sloppiness.
interesting take!!
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  #11  
Old 12-05-2008, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasept
Before this turns into the Ox Bow Incident, be aware that the violation is for Penicillin G Procaine, a Class 3 violation. This is a routine antibiotic used regularly with horses for a million reasons. It is not something that is going to enhance performance.

What is stunning about this is how stupid a thing it is for the Pletcher barn to have been using in close proximity to a major event. It is amazing that a guy who runs a business like Pletcher, would allow use of Penicillin G Procaine near one of his Breeders' Cup scheduled runners even 45 or 60 days out.

And scheduled withdrawl for it is 15 days...

This isn't 'cheating'.. It's sloppiness.
My boss doesn't use PPG because of the insane withdrawl time... no matter what it says the withdrawal time is, you can't go by it... there's several drugs out there like that... which is why they always make it a point to say "Suggested" Withdrawal times. If we have to treat a horse with Penn, we will give Potassium Penicillin because you could actually use it pretty close to a race (not that you'd really WANT to, because it'll flatten them).
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  #12  
Old 12-05-2008, 12:30 PM
Antitrust32 Antitrust32 is offline
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Originally Posted by philcski
None. Been saying this for a long time.



KMc? Doubtful. His winning profile is consistent with the stock that he has.
think he meant Baffert.... he trained for the dead Saudi terrorist...
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  #13  
Old 12-05-2008, 12:30 PM
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think he meant Baffert.... he trained for the dead Saudi terrorist...
BF guys...
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  #14  
Old 12-05-2008, 12:32 PM
Antitrust32 Antitrust32 is offline
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BF guys...
what does BF mean?
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  #15  
Old 12-05-2008, 12:34 PM
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what does BF mean?
Gosh do I have to spell it out, his initials. Remember the day he would take over the training of a horse, this happened once off a Mdn win, put her in a graded stk and would win silly. It happened.
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  #16  
Old 12-05-2008, 12:35 PM
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what does BF mean?
best friends. my wife is my bff!! I tell her that every day!

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  #17  
Old 12-05-2008, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Antitrust32
think he meant Baffert.... he trained for the dead Saudi terrorist...
Not sure I'd definitely put him in that category automatically either. He hasn't had great stock lately, and the ones that were actually good (i.e. Midnight Lute, Midshipman) ran like it.
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  #18  
Old 12-05-2008, 12:36 PM
Antitrust32 Antitrust32 is offline
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Originally Posted by philcski
Not sure I'd definitely put him in that category automatically either. He hasn't had great stock lately, and the ones that were actually good (i.e. Midnight Lute, Midshipman) ran like it.
well I was wrong LOL

I do like baffert even if he does or does not cheat.

It seems like all the top guys do it... so I guess we can either not care or not bet.
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  #19  
Old 12-05-2008, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by philcski
Not sure I'd definitely put him in that category automatically either. He hasn't had great stock lately, and the ones that were actually good (i.e. Midnight Lute, Midshipman) ran like it.
He comes on with Steve on ATR on the rare occasion, since he might lurk here it is important to only say it's a suspicion. But one I feel he may be no different than Todd, except he was smart enough to avoid detection. Thus he has looked more human the past few years.
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  #20  
Old 12-05-2008, 12:42 PM
Antitrust32 Antitrust32 is offline
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Originally Posted by CSC
He comes on with Steve on ATR on the rare occasion, since he might lurk here. It is important to only say it's a suspicion, but one I feel he may be no different than Todd, except he was smart enough to avoid detection. Thus he has looked more human the past few years.
You are definately talking about Chuck Simon... I've suspected him of cheating ever since Battle Won.

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