Big Brown headed to Monmouth

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

if you dont understand why people would not buy into the "greatness" of BB or his chances of beating Curlin, I am wondering what you have been following this year?

Frank Lyons commentary?

[RollerDoc]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Coal Play = Sensitive Prince? In what regard other than both being thoroughbreds?

The three year old crop sucks, the connections brashness make him very hard to root for, he is already assured of being retired after this year and he simply isnt that talented in terms of past champions. No one is saying that he is a 10 claimer but if you dont understand why people would not buy into the "greatness" of BB or his chances of beating Curlin, I am wondering what you have been following this year?

What I have been following this year with great awe is the greatness of Big Brown, the race horse.

The difference is I have chosen to not allow the bad chemistry of his connections taint his spotlight.

So it's Big Brown's fault that you and others perceive that the 3 yr old crop sucks? It's amazing to me how so many say (not saying you) Big Brown would be just average in a different field, yet these are the same people scolding others when someone tries to hypothetically compare horses. Example how would Smarty Jones have done vs. Barbaro? It can't be answered, they never raced. Just like you don't know that Big Brown would or would not have won the Kentucky Derby vs. the 2006 field?

[ArlJim78]

this year alone, there are seven horses that have run bigger route beyers than Big Brown. i guess thats all it takes these days for people to fall all over themselves in order to heap on the praise.

[RollerDoc]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

this year alone, there are seven horses that have run bigger route beyers than Big Brown. i guess thats all it takes these days for people to fall all over themselves in order to heap on the praise.

Not being smart Jm, but is it possible that during the Secretariat, Seattle Slew, and Affirmed years that other horses clocked bigger route Beyers?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Not being smart Jm, but is it possible that during the Secretariat, Seattle Slew, and Affirmed years that other horses clocked bigger route Beyers?

Uhh no.

[Cannon Shell]

Simply using Beyers as a measure, Big Brown is not only not great he is on the low side of fair when compared to true good horses of recent past. He is the most accomplished three year old but in this weak crop where no one else has grabbed the reins to even be clearly second best there is just not much to be excited about. He is like Todd Hollandsworth as the NL rookie of the year in 1996, nice season and best of a limited crop but far from a real bright light. The weakness of the older horses also plays a factor here in that seemingly Curlin is the only real top older horse. If a few of the top horses from last year had stayed in training and progressed as 4 year olds there would be 4 or 5 horses that would be superior to BB as opposed to just Curlin.

[RollerDoc]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Uhh no.

Never? Not one?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Never? Not one?

Comparing those horses with big brown is punishable by public flogging in several countries

[RollerDoc]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Comparing those horses with big brown is punishable by public flogging in several countries

I wasn't comparing Big Brown to them. I was just trying to find out if the horses that are tops in their field for that particular year also have better beyers?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

I wasn't comparing Big Brown to them. I was just trying to find out if the horses that are tops in their field for that particular year also have better beyers?

They didnt have public beyer numbers for those horses but Andy beyer has said in one of his books that he gave Secretariat a 139 for the Belmont. a horse like Sensitve Prince who was probably the third best 3 year old in the Affirmed/Alydar year would pretty much smoke any of the horses that could be considered the second or third best 3 year old this year.

[RollerDoc]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Sensitve Prince who was probably the third best 3 year old in the Affirmed/Alydar year would pretty much smoke any of the horses that could be considered the second or third best 3 year old this year.

Just like Big Brown has

[Danzig]

the giants won the super bowl, doesn't mean they're one of the best football teams ever. but someone has to win the game each year, doesn't mean they're memorable. big brown is not great, not even close.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Simply using Beyers as a measure, Big Brown is not only not great he is on the low side of fair when compared to true good horses of recent past. He is the most accomplished three year old but in this weak crop where no one else has grabbed the reins to even be clearly second best there is just not much to be excited about. He is like Todd Hollandsworth as the NL rookie of the year in 1996, nice season and best of a limited crop but far from a real bright light. The weakness of the older horses also plays a factor here in that seemingly Curlin is the only real top older horse. If a few of the top horses from last year had stayed in training and progressed as 4 year olds there would be 4 or 5 horses that would be superior to BB as opposed to just Curlin.

Beyer is just one measure. How do his Rag or sheet number compare?

If looked in this context perhaps he jumps from Hollandsworth to maybe Jeter.

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

IEAH wouldn't go to the Travers cause they might get beat.

IEAH wouldn't go to the Woodward cause they would get beat.

IEAH didn't throw down the gauntlet and say they wanted to meet Curlin in the Mass Cap cause they would get beat.

IEAH wouldn't go to the JCGC cause they would get beat.

And IEAH won't say they'll show up at the Clark to settle the score cause they would get beat.

Great "champion". I'll vote for Anak Nakal who beat Big Brown in the test of champions. And I can't wait for Einstein/Red Giant/Cosmonaut/Out of Control to show up on 9/13 and show Big Brown just how sorry this 3yo crop is.

If those 4 show up at MTH on 9/13 BB will be finishing 5th in that race.

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Exactly...........This is Big Brown's year. Let Curlin come to him. Big Brown has already solidified top 3 yr old. When he wins BCC, I can't wait for the backlash when he wins HOY.

Newsflash.....when Curlin wins The Woodward and The JCGC he will lock up horse of the year. His only loss was a game 2nd to a BC Winner....BB"s was a dismal last against a bunch of pretty sad horses.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Beyer is just one measure. How do his Rag or sheet number compare?

If looked in this context perhaps he jumps from Hollandsworth to maybe Jeter.

Sheets are useless with historical comparisons because they are running higher numbers in 5 claimers now than it took to win the Derby 15 years ago. The scale they use is much lower than it used to be.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Sheets are useless with historical comparisons because they are running higher numbers in 5 claimers now than it took to win the Derby 15 years ago. The scale they use is much lower than it used to be.

Regarldless, didnt Rag say that Big Brown's derby was the best since Secretariat and that his prep in the Fla Derby was one of the best ky derby preps ever?

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Sheets are useless with historical comparisons because they are running higher numbers in 5 claimers now than it took to win the Derby 15 years ago. The scale they use is much lower than it used to be.

Especially if they run at Laurel/Pimlico/Delaware, crazy insane numbers out of there.

[stonegossard]

Gotta love PJ Campo...




The New York Racing Association's racing secretary, P.J. Campo, confirmed that Dutrow called his office at Saratoga early Friday seeking permission to work Big Brown over the Aqueduct turf course.

"The grass course at Aqueduct is normally open for training on Thursdays at this time of year, and we need time to plan ahead to accommodate special requests," said Campo. "We're not a training center, and he should have given us a little more notice to plan ahead. Cones have to be put up, and there are lots of things to take care of to open the course. He needs to take care of his business properly and give us some advance notice. Rick's got 40 stalls at Monmouth Park. I'm sure they could accommodate him on their turf course."