NBA Rookie of the Year?

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

What exactly did they draft him for? To run plays for Chris Wilcox? Or Nick Collison? The guy is 19 and is the featured player on an NBA team. He is about the only scoring option they have and is putting up good numbers FOR A 19 YEAR OLD!!!!
He is averaging 17 shots per game which is far from too many, he is shooting 40% from the field but that is dragged down by his 3 point shooting which he does do too much of. Not counting 3 point shots he is shooting 50% from the field. Not to mention a block and a steal and 4 rebounds 2 assists and 87% from the line and 20 points per. Did I mention that he is 19? Look at Kobe and LeBrons numbers when they were 19

Kobe (2nd year in NBA)
15.4 pts
.5 blk
.9 steals
2.5 assists
3 rebs
79% FT%
42% FG%

LeBron at 19 (rookie year)
20 pts
.7 blk
1.6 steals
5.9 ast
5 rbs
75% FT%
41%FG%
19 shots per game
29% 3pt%

Durant at 19
19.4 pts
1.0 blk
1.2 steals
2.3 assists
4.3 rebs
87% FT%
40.6 FG%
17 shots per
28.8% 3pts%

Stacks up pretty well, no?

At least watch the games or look at the stats before making your case

Of for gosh sakes. Cut it with the silly numbers
There is no way in hell Durant is having a Lebron 1st year.
Of course he is going to get better.
He cant stay that weak and slow.
And you are right, he is only 19,
he is just not even close to the athlete Kobe or
Lebron was when they started, not even close.
He is still just a kid physically as I was saying all along.
But he is a fundamentally better shooter than both.

Good Lord I can bench press more than him.

He also handles the ball much less than either Kobe or
Lebron. He stands around the perimeter for the most
part and shoots. They try and isolate him and he jump
shoots. He plays a completely diff. game than Kobe
or Lebron. Tell me you agree with this or it is you my
good friend that need to find the NBA games.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Of for gosh sakes. Cut it with the silly numbers
There is no way in hell Durant is having a Lebron 1st year.
Of course he is going to get better.
He cant stay that weak and slow.
And you are right, he is only 19,
he is just not even close to the athlete Kobe or
Lebron was when they started, not even close.
He is still just a kid physically as I was saying all along.
But he is a fundamentally better shooter than both.

Good Lord I can bench press more than him.

He also handles the ball much less than either Kobe or
Lebron. He stands around the perimeter for the most
part and shoots. They try and isolate him and he jump
shoots. He plays a completely diff. game than Kobe
or Lebron. Tell me you agree with this or it is you my
good friend that need to find the NBA games.

I agree Pgardn...stats are great in fantasy ball but not a true reflection of ability...if they were then the best player in the NBA for several years now would be Marion while in truth, he was never more than the third best player on the Suns...

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

I agree Pgardn...stats are great in fantasy ball but not a true reflection of ability...if they were then the best player in the NBA for several years now would be Marion while in truth, he was never more than the third best player on the Suns...

You are right...lots of 19 year olds put up 20 a night in the NBA...Marion by the way is a better player in almost every phase of the game than Amare...

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You are right...lots of 19 year olds put up 20 a night in the NBA...Marion by the way is a better player in almost every phase of the game than Amare...

I hope you are joking....but even if you aren't, my point is made, Marion ranks #1 in the league stat wise from a fantasy point of view...think the Lakers would trade Kobe for him? The Cavs trade Lebron? The Suns trade Nash to get him back? The Spurs trade Duncan....how many should I list?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

I hope you are joking....but even if you aren't, my point is made, Marion ranks #1 in the league stat wise from a fantasy point of view...think the Lakers would trade Kobe for him? The Cavs trade Lebron? The Suns trade Nash to get him back? The Spurs trade Duncan....how many should I list?

We arent talking fantasy, we are talking real life. Your comparisons are ill conceived as you listed the 2 best players in the league, a center (so says ppgn) and a point guard. Marion is a very good 2 way player that can do everything including play lockdown defense. He is a 4 time allstar in the Western conference and you are acting like it is some fluke that he has good stats. Dont you think playing on a team that averages 110 points a game helped him out in fantasy?

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

We arent talking fantasy, we are talking real life. Your comparisons are ill conceived as you listed the 2 best players in the league, a center (so says ppgn) and a point guard. Marion is a very good 2 way player that can do everything including play lockdown defense. He is a 4 time allstar in the Western conference and you are acting like it is some fluke that he has good stats. Dont you think playing on a team that averages 110 points a game helped him out in fantasy?

We are talking real life....stats alone, as Pgardn pointed out, aren't a complete picture! This is illustrated by Marion...in the fantasy sport world, he IS the best player in the NBA...by your own admission here, Kobe and Lebron are better....don't try and turn things around, it was you who tried to compare Kobe and Lebron with Durant by using stats! Durant is a good young player...with skills greatly inferior to Kobe, Lebron and a number of other NBA players. Kobe and Lebron were probably the physical equals of Durant at about....15 or 16!

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

We are talking real life....stats alone, as Pgardn pointed out, aren't a complete picture! This is illustrated by Marion...in the fantasy sport world, he IS the best player in the NBA...by your own admission here, Kobe and Lebron are better....don't try and turn things around, it was you who tried to compare Kobe and Lebron with Durant by using stats! Durant is a good young player...with skills greatly inferior to Kobe, Lebron and a number of other NBA players. Kobe and Lebron were probably the physical equals of Durant at about....15 or 16!

If you compare the production of the three at age 19, which I did, it is clear that he is as productive as those 2 were at the same age. Is that too hard for you to understand? Do Lebrons 20 a game in 36 mins as a rookie count more than Durants 20 a game in 33 minutes? His skills at age 19 are not greatly inferior to either player. No one is saying that he will become the players that those 2 are now but he is nowhere near 'greatly inferior" to either at the same stage of their careers.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You are right...lots of 19 year olds put up 20 a night in the NBA...Marion by the way is a better player in almost every phase of the game than Amare...

Marion is a huge headcase just like Amare.
He is one guy I loved on the Suns, he would absolutely shut down during the 4th quarter in big games. Marion is a regular season get my numbers guy. Until he proves otherwise he is nothing more.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Marion is a huge headcase just like Amare.
He is one guy I loved on the Suns, he would absolutely shut down during the 4th quarter in big games. Marion is a regular season get my numbers guy. Until he proves otherwise he is nothing more.

He is a bit odd but he is a tremendous player. The Suns style was compromised during the 4th quarters of playoff games when every possession counts and you cant waste opportunities. That does not play to Marion's offensive strengths. But he is a great defender and can guard just about anyone.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Of for gosh sakes. Cut it with the silly numbers
There is no way in hell Durant is having a Lebron 1st year.
Of course he is going to get better.
He cant stay that weak and slow.
And you are right, he is only 19,
he is just not even close to the athlete Kobe or
Lebron was when they started, not even close.
He is still just a kid physically as I was saying all along.
But he is a fundamentally better shooter than both.

Good Lord I can bench press more than him.

He also handles the ball much less than either Kobe or
Lebron. He stands around the perimeter for the most
part and shoots. They try and isolate him and he jump
shoots. He plays a completely diff. game than Kobe
or Lebron. Tell me you agree with this or it is you my
good friend that need to find the NBA games.

No wonder the American education system is under attack! You still cant get over the fact the guy is skinny and refuse to see that his production is better than Kobe and similar to Le Bron's at the same age, which is signifigant. Find another player in NBA history that has produced like Durant has at 19. Now I understand that there arent many examples before 15 years ago but there arent many guys like Durant. I didnt say that he has a similar game than the others but he has superior and similar production. For some reason you want to make him a post up player and feel he is somehow inferior because he doesnt make a lot of plays on the box. That is flawed reasoning and shows your inability to see what is happening as opposed to seeing what you want to see which is Durant missing jumpshots. He was put into a bad situation and has handled it pretty well so far. He is not as polished as Lebron was as a rookie but no one ever came from high school and did what he did except Moses Malone and that was a long time ago. Durant is a really good player that will undoubtedly get better as his team improves, he gets more experience and gets stronger. There isnt a team in the NBA that wouldnt love to have him.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

No wonder the American education system is under attack! You still cant get over the fact the guy is skinny and refuse to see that his production is better than Kobe and similar to Le Bron's at the same age, which is signifigant. Find another player in NBA history that has produced like Durant has at 19. Now I understand that there arent many examples before 15 years ago but there arent many guys like Durant. I didnt say that he has a similar game than the others but he has superior and similar production. For some reason you want to make him a post up player and feel he is somehow inferior because he doesnt make a lot of plays on the box. That is flawed reasoning and shows your inability to see what is happening as opposed to seeing what you want to see which is Durant missing jumpshots. He was put into a bad situation and has handled it pretty well so far. He is not as polished as Lebron was as a rookie but no one ever came from high school and did what he did except Moses Malone and that was a long time ago. Durant is a really good player that will undoubtedly get better as his team improves, he gets more experience and gets stronger. There isnt a team in the NBA that wouldnt love to have him.

At 19 years old and he has not even physically matured yet with that beautiful jump shot. I told you the guy is absolutely great fundamentally with the jump shot. He is one of the best players I have ever seen shooting the ball right off the catch. Of course any team would love to have him... but not this year. I would rather him go through his season right now, getting a lot of time on the floor, and then take him in two years. He has a huge physical disability in the NBA because the guy flat out has no muscles! I would take him in a heartbeat FOR THE FUTURE.
Are you telling me you would take him just as is? With no physical improvement in athletic ability. I would not take him if he flat lined just like he is now. He is 1-D now. Surely you have to see that.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

At 19 years old and he has not even physically matured yet with that beautiful jump shot. I told you the guy is absolutely great fundamentally with the jump shot. He is one of the best players I have ever seen shooting the ball right off the catch. Of course any team would love to have him... but not this year. I would rather him go through his season right now, getting a lot of time on the floor, and then take him in two years. He has a huge physical disability in the NBA because the guy flat out has no muscles! I would take him in a heartbeat FOR THE FUTURE.
Are you telling me you would take him just as is? With no physical improvement in athletic ability. I would not take him if he flat lined just like he is now. He is 1-D now. Surely you have to see that.

That is the whole point. There is a zero percent chance that he wont improve as all the really young guys in the league do. However he is already far ahead of almost every other 19 year old to come into the leeague except LeBron and maybe Carmello. He is the best player on his team despite the physical issues and lack of experience. They suck but ho can you knock a guy that has been as productive as he has at 19. Especially when he is drawing the opposing teams best defender on most nights. If you wanted to knock him, he seems to have no clue on the defensive end. He gets a couple of blocks and steals but that is because he is long.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

That is the whole point. There is a zero percent chance that he wont improve as all the really young guys in the league do. However he is already far ahead of almost every other 19 year old to come into the leeague except LeBron and maybe Carmello. He is the best player on his team despite the physical issues and lack of experience. They suck but ho can you knock a guy that has been as productive as he has at 19. Especially when he is drawing the opposing teams best defender on most nights. If you wanted to knock him, he seems to have no clue on the defensive end. He gets a couple of blocks and steals but that is because he is long.

He has not been asked to play defense.
He has some real issues with taking care of the ball, some of it might have to do with strength. He is far ahead because he is such a fundamentally sound shooter. The biggest impediment to his game is his lack of athleticism. He is slow footed and weak. Yes I would expect his quickness and strength to improve. Once he starts getting to the basket off the dribble he will be pure hell to cover because he is a pure shooter. But with an inability to penetrate on a consistent basis off the dribble he is a bit more handicapped as a shooter. People dont back off of him. You can put a athletic 6 foot 6 guy on him and get right in his grill. Get right on top of him. That hurts him a great deal right now imo. And that strong 6 foot 6 guy can push him to halfcourt if he tries to get on the blocks... hurts him a great deal. He also is playing on a team that is bad so he does pick up a good number of baskets when the game is already over.

I do see some similiarites between Durant and the early George Gervin except that Gervin could go to the basket (ABA Defense). Gervin also had very sharp elbows. I have not seen those from Durant yet (probably smart by him not to try this right now)

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

No wonder the American education system is under attack! .

Oh the teacher bashing I endure on this site.

Betcha I could teach you some stuff
about the physics of a horse striking
different types of surfaces and I betcha
you would be interested.

I gotta get up there and have a beer
with this horse bunch. Have em slap me upside
the head.

I love talking sports. Have a pleasant evening...
both Somer and Mr. Cannon. Even his highness
King Glory. Good stuff.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Oh the teacher bashing I endure on this site.

Betcha I could teach you some stuff
about the physics of a horse striking
different types of surfaces and I betcha
you would be interested.

I gotta get up there and have a beer
with this horse bunch. Have em slap me upside
the head.

I love talking sports. Have a pleasant evening...
both Somer and Mr. Cannon. Even his highness
King Glory. Good stuff.

I'm done also...sleepy and time for an old guy to hit the sack!