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-   -   NBA Rookie of the Year? (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20157)

King Glorious 02-14-2008 02:47 PM

NBA Rookie of the Year?
 
The award was basically conceded to Kevin Durant before the season started. Through the first two months of the year, it looked like he had it locked up. Not so fast. The Clippers' Al Thornton is coming on strong. Living here in LA, I get to see this guy play regularly. He's going to be a serious player in this league. It took him a while to come around but he's really showing that he's a force to be reckoned with. If I had a vote, I would be leaning towards Thornton right now. Unlike Durant who's strictly a jump shooter, Thornton has a variety of ways that he can score. He's also a very capable guy on the boards. A comparison of how Durant and Thornton stack up since the start of 2008:

Note-Thornton(2) are his stats when you take out his games where he played less than 20 minutes. Durant has played over 25 minutes every game.

Jan/Feb
Durant.......20 games.....39% fg.......18.9 pts.......3.9 boards.....33.4 mins
Thornton....21 games.....47% fg.......14.6 pts.......4.4 boards.....28.4 mins
Thornton(2)17 games.....47% fg.......16.3 pts.......5.0 boards.....31.2 mins

Feb only
Durant.......5 games.......38% fg......17.2 pts.......3.6 boards...34.2 mins
Thornton....8 games.......43% fg......16.8 pts.......6.1 boards...32.9 mins
Thornton(2)6 games.......46% fg......19.8 pts.......7.5 boards...37.7 mins

As you can see, Thornton was right on par with Durant when combining the months and this month, has outdone him. It's even more impressive when considering that of the 21 games Thornton has played since January started, he's only started eight of them and he's started five of the eight February games. So he's getting his numbers as a part-time starter while Durant is getting his as not only a starter but the first scoring option on his team. Thornton has been on a tear in his last four (37.3 mins, 21.5 pts, 8.0 boards, 58% shooting). The race is definitely heating up.

The funniest thing is that Thornton wasn't even chosen to compete in the Rookie/Sophomore Challenge game.

SniperSB23 02-14-2008 02:48 PM

Mooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooon!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

King Glorious 02-14-2008 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23
Mooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooon!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He was very unheralded and has been a consistent and surprising contributer for the Raptors. But he just doesn't score enough. He shoots well and rebounds pretty well but he's just not as big a force on the offensive end as those other two guys.

Moon
Jan/Feb....19 games, 28.0 mins, 8.9 points, 5.6 boards, 50% shooting
Feb only...6 games, 22.0 mins, 9.5 points, 4.8 boards, 54% shooting

In my opinion, he should be on the all-rookie first team but ranks behind the other two. Good player though.

Cannon Shell 02-14-2008 03:05 PM

Unless Durant breaks his leg he is a lock.

whodey17 02-14-2008 03:14 PM

I am with Cannon here. However, my pick would be Al Horford.

SniperSB23 02-14-2008 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious
He was very unheralded and has been a consistent and surprising contributer for the Raptors. But he just doesn't score enough. He shoots well and rebounds pretty well but he's just not as big a force on the offensive end as those other two guys.

Moon
Jan/Feb....19 games, 28.0 mins, 8.9 points, 5.6 boards, 50% shooting
Feb only...6 games, 22.0 mins, 9.5 points, 4.8 boards, 54% shooting

In my opinion, he should be on the all-rookie first team but ranks behind the other two. Good player though.

He played for the Albany Patroons the past two seasons so I went and watched him all the time. Was amazed how talented he was to not be able to make it in the NBA. Now I see he really was as good as I thought he was. He can score which is why the Raptors offense baffles me. I've watched a few of their games and he basically just sits in the corner while the rest of the team passes around the ball. Makes no sense since he can shoot the three at 6'8" and can dunk on anyone. Last night I caught the first few minutes of their game against NJ and up 11-6 early he'd already hit a three, caught an alley-oop for a dunk, and drove to get to the line for two free throws for 7 points. Wish they got him that involved more often. Watch out for him in the rookie game, he is great in transition and can throw down some incredible dunks. The game's style should suit him perfectly.

King Glorious 02-14-2008 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whodey17
I am with Cannon here. However, my pick would be Al Horford.

Al Horford has played very well too. Most people who know the game thought he was better than Noah coming out.

Cannon Shell 02-14-2008 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious
Al Horford has played very well too. Most people who know the game thought he was better than Noah coming out.

Even people who dont know the game knew that. The only thing Noah has over Horford is hair and the fact his father was a better pro athlete than Tito Horford.

whodey17 02-14-2008 06:29 PM

Tito Horford--lol

pgardn 02-14-2008 08:41 PM

Durant has got it basically because he
has been given the green light on every
play to heave up a shot, which he does.

He plays big minutes and goes 7 for 23 about
every night. He may get to the foul line so
he gets his just under 20. Totally one dimensional,
but he numbers are too big.

Cannon Shell 02-14-2008 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgardn
Durant has got it basically because he
has been given the green light on every
play to heave up a shot, which he does.

He plays big minutes and goes 7 for 23 about
every night. He may get to the foul line so
he gets his just under 20. Totally one dimensional,
but he numbers are too big.

What exactly did they draft him for? To run plays for Chris Wilcox? Or Nick Collison? The guy is 19 and is the featured player on an NBA team. He is about the only scoring option they have and is putting up good numbers FOR A 19 YEAR OLD!!!!
He is averaging 17 shots per game which is far from too many, he is shooting 40% from the field but that is dragged down by his 3 point shooting which he does do too much of. Not counting 3 point shots he is shooting 50% from the field. Not to mention a block and a steal and 4 rebounds 2 assists and 87% from the line and 20 points per. Did I mention that he is 19? Look at Kobe and LeBrons numbers when they were 19

Kobe (2nd year in NBA)
15.4 pts
.5 blk
.9 steals
2.5 assists
3 rebs
79% FT%
42% FG%

LeBron at 19 (rookie year)
20 pts
.7 blk
1.6 steals
5.9 ast
5 rbs
75% FT%
41%FG%
19 shots per game
29% 3pt%

Durant at 19
19.4 pts
1.0 blk
1.2 steals
2.3 assists
4.3 rebs
87% FT%
40.6 FG%
17 shots per
28.8% 3pts%

Stacks up pretty well, no?

At least watch the games or look at the stats before making your case

pgardn 02-14-2008 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
What exactly did they draft him for? To run plays for Chris Wilcox? Or Nick Collison? The guy is 19 and is the featured player on an NBA team. He is about the only scoring option they have and is putting up good numbers FOR A 19 YEAR OLD!!!!
He is averaging 17 shots per game which is far from too many, he is shooting 40% from the field but that is dragged down by his 3 point shooting which he does do too much of. Not counting 3 point shots he is shooting 50% from the field. Not to mention a block and a steal and 4 rebounds 2 assists and 87% from the line and 20 points per. Did I mention that he is 19? Look at Kobe and LeBrons numbers when they were 19

Kobe (2nd year in NBA)
15.4 pts
.5 blk
.9 steals
2.5 assists
3 rebs
79% FT%
42% FG%

LeBron at 19 (rookie year)
20 pts
.7 blk
1.6 steals
5.9 ast
5 rbs
75% FT%
41%FG%
19 shots per game
29% 3pt%

Durant at 19
19.4 pts
1.0 blk
1.2 steals
2.3 assists
4.3 rebs
87% FT%
40.6 FG%
17 shots per
28.8% 3pts%

Stacks up pretty well, no?

At least watch the games or look at the stats before making your case

Of for gosh sakes. Cut it with the silly numbers
There is no way in hell Durant is having a Lebron 1st year.
Of course he is going to get better.
He cant stay that weak and slow.
And you are right, he is only 19,
he is just not even close to the athlete Kobe or
Lebron was when they started, not even close.
He is still just a kid physically as I was saying all along.
But he is a fundamentally better shooter than both.

Good Lord I can bench press more than him.

He also handles the ball much less than either Kobe or
Lebron. He stands around the perimeter for the most
part and shoots. They try and isolate him and he jump
shoots. He plays a completely diff. game than Kobe
or Lebron. Tell me you agree with this or it is you my
good friend that need to find the NBA games.

somerfrost 02-14-2008 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgardn
Of for gosh sakes. Cut it with the silly numbers
There is no way in hell Durant is having a Lebron 1st year.
Of course he is going to get better.
He cant stay that weak and slow.
And you are right, he is only 19,
he is just not even close to the athlete Kobe or
Lebron was when they started, not even close.
He is still just a kid physically as I was saying all along.
But he is a fundamentally better shooter than both.

Good Lord I can bench press more than him.

He also handles the ball much less than either Kobe or
Lebron. He stands around the perimeter for the most
part and shoots. They try and isolate him and he jump
shoots. He plays a completely diff. game than Kobe
or Lebron. Tell me you agree with this or it is you my
good friend that need to find the NBA games.

I agree Pgardn...stats are great in fantasy ball but not a true reflection of ability...if they were then the best player in the NBA for several years now would be Marion while in truth, he was never more than the third best player on the Suns...

Cannon Shell 02-14-2008 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgardn
Of for gosh sakes. Cut it with the silly numbers
There is no way in hell Durant is having a Lebron 1st year.
Of course he is going to get better.
He cant stay that weak and slow.
And you are right, he is only 19,
he is just not even close to the athlete Kobe or
Lebron was when they started, not even close.
He is still just a kid physically as I was saying all along.
But he is a fundamentally better shooter than both.

Good Lord I can bench press more than him.

He also handles the ball much less than either Kobe or
Lebron. He stands around the perimeter for the most
part and shoots. They try and isolate him and he jump
shoots. He plays a completely diff. game than Kobe
or Lebron. Tell me you agree with this or it is you my
good friend that need to find the NBA games.

No wonder the American education system is under attack! You still cant get over the fact the guy is skinny and refuse to see that his production is better than Kobe and similar to Le Bron's at the same age, which is signifigant. Find another player in NBA history that has produced like Durant has at 19. Now I understand that there arent many examples before 15 years ago but there arent many guys like Durant. I didnt say that he has a similar game than the others but he has superior and similar production. For some reason you want to make him a post up player and feel he is somehow inferior because he doesnt make a lot of plays on the box. That is flawed reasoning and shows your inability to see what is happening as opposed to seeing what you want to see which is Durant missing jumpshots. He was put into a bad situation and has handled it pretty well so far. He is not as polished as Lebron was as a rookie but no one ever came from high school and did what he did except Moses Malone and that was a long time ago. Durant is a really good player that will undoubtedly get better as his team improves, he gets more experience and gets stronger. There isnt a team in the NBA that wouldnt love to have him.

Cannon Shell 02-14-2008 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somerfrost
I agree Pgardn...stats are great in fantasy ball but not a true reflection of ability...if they were then the best player in the NBA for several years now would be Marion while in truth, he was never more than the third best player on the Suns...

You are right...lots of 19 year olds put up 20 a night in the NBA...Marion by the way is a better player in almost every phase of the game than Amare...

somerfrost 02-14-2008 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
You are right...lots of 19 year olds put up 20 a night in the NBA...Marion by the way is a better player in almost every phase of the game than Amare...


I hope you are joking....but even if you aren't, my point is made, Marion ranks #1 in the league stat wise from a fantasy point of view...think the Lakers would trade Kobe for him? The Cavs trade Lebron? The Suns trade Nash to get him back? The Spurs trade Duncan....how many should I list?

pgardn 02-14-2008 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
No wonder the American education system is under attack! You still cant get over the fact the guy is skinny and refuse to see that his production is better than Kobe and similar to Le Bron's at the same age, which is signifigant. Find another player in NBA history that has produced like Durant has at 19. Now I understand that there arent many examples before 15 years ago but there arent many guys like Durant. I didnt say that he has a similar game than the others but he has superior and similar production. For some reason you want to make him a post up player and feel he is somehow inferior because he doesnt make a lot of plays on the box. That is flawed reasoning and shows your inability to see what is happening as opposed to seeing what you want to see which is Durant missing jumpshots. He was put into a bad situation and has handled it pretty well so far. He is not as polished as Lebron was as a rookie but no one ever came from high school and did what he did except Moses Malone and that was a long time ago. Durant is a really good player that will undoubtedly get better as his team improves, he gets more experience and gets stronger. There isnt a team in the NBA that wouldnt love to have him.

At 19 years old and he has not even physically matured yet with that beautiful jump shot. I told you the guy is absolutely great fundamentally with the jump shot. He is one of the best players I have ever seen shooting the ball right off the catch. Of course any team would love to have him... but not this year. I would rather him go through his season right now, getting a lot of time on the floor, and then take him in two years. He has a huge physical disability in the NBA because the guy flat out has no muscles! I would take him in a heartbeat FOR THE FUTURE.
Are you telling me you would take him just as is? With no physical improvement in athletic ability. I would not take him if he flat lined just like he is now. He is 1-D now. Surely you have to see that.

Cannon Shell 02-14-2008 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somerfrost
I hope you are joking....but even if you aren't, my point is made, Marion ranks #1 in the league stat wise from a fantasy point of view...think the Lakers would trade Kobe for him? The Cavs trade Lebron? The Suns trade Nash to get him back? The Spurs trade Duncan....how many should I list?

We arent talking fantasy, we are talking real life. Your comparisons are ill conceived as you listed the 2 best players in the league, a center (so says ppgn) and a point guard. Marion is a very good 2 way player that can do everything including play lockdown defense. He is a 4 time allstar in the Western conference and you are acting like it is some fluke that he has good stats. Dont you think playing on a team that averages 110 points a game helped him out in fantasy?

pgardn 02-14-2008 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
You are right...lots of 19 year olds put up 20 a night in the NBA...Marion by the way is a better player in almost every phase of the game than Amare...

Marion is a huge headcase just like Amare.
He is one guy I loved on the Suns, he would absolutely shut down during the 4th quarter in big games. Marion is a regular season get my numbers guy. Until he proves otherwise he is nothing more.

Cannon Shell 02-14-2008 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgardn
At 19 years old and he has not even physically matured yet with that beautiful jump shot. I told you the guy is absolutely great fundamentally with the jump shot. He is one of the best players I have ever seen shooting the ball right off the catch. Of course any team would love to have him... but not this year. I would rather him go through his season right now, getting a lot of time on the floor, and then take him in two years. He has a huge physical disability in the NBA because the guy flat out has no muscles! I would take him in a heartbeat FOR THE FUTURE.
Are you telling me you would take him just as is? With no physical improvement in athletic ability. I would not take him if he flat lined just like he is now. He is 1-D now. Surely you have to see that.

That is the whole point. There is a zero percent chance that he wont improve as all the really young guys in the league do. However he is already far ahead of almost every other 19 year old to come into the leeague except LeBron and maybe Carmello. He is the best player on his team despite the physical issues and lack of experience. They suck but ho can you knock a guy that has been as productive as he has at 19. Especially when he is drawing the opposing teams best defender on most nights. If you wanted to knock him, he seems to have no clue on the defensive end. He gets a couple of blocks and steals but that is because he is long.


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