My Prediction for Santa Anita

[ArlJim78]

jockey comments on synthetics from the recent Bloodhorse article.

Robbie Albarado
"If I can go around there every day with one pair of goggles and one pair of pants and not have sand hit me at 35 mile per hour, yeah, I will take that every day"

Garrett Gomez
" The polytrack doesn't have a lot of kickback, which is good for the horses."

Patrick Husbands
"The polytrack to me is the best thing to happen to racing. It is easy on the horses and a more patient racetrack."

Rene Douglas
"What I like about it is that you don't have to get that dirt in your face. Its easier for a horse to ride through and easier to control your horse. I would 100% prefer synthetic surfaces"

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

jockey comments on synthetics from the recent Bloodhorse article.

Robbie Albarado
"If I can go around there every day with one pair of goggles and one pair of pants and not have sand hit me at 35 mile per hour, yeah, I will take that every day"

Garrett Gomez
" The polytrack doesn't have a lot of kickback, which is good for the horses."

Patrick Husbands
"The polytrack to me is the best thing to happen to racing. It is easy on the horses and a more patient racetrack."

Rene Douglas
"What I like about it is that you don't have to get that dirt in your face. Its easier for a horse to ride through and easier to control your horse. I would 100% prefer synthetic surfaces"

Yes, that is correct. Santa Anita is the exception to the rule. In general, there is far less kickback on synthetic tracks. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there is no kickback on synthetic tracks. There is kickback but it is not nearly as bad as on regular dirt. In general the jocks even come back much cleaner after the race. On regular dirt, if a jock is on a come-from-behinder, the jock usually comes back covered in dirt after the race.

By the way, if you have a horse that has only run on synthetic surfaces and he is about to run on dirt for the first time, it would be a big concern how he will handle getting hit in the face with real dirt. It stings quite a bit. If it was the other way around and you had a horse that had been running on regualr dirt who was running on a synthetic track for the first time, you would not have to worry about that issue.

Let me tell you something, ArlJim. Those quotes are spot on and should put an end to this ridiculous witch hunt the big people are on. Little people should be in charge of horse racing.

I call for a vote right now to make Gary Stevens Ruler of Horse Racing. All those in favor?

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Let me tell you something, ArlJim. Those quotes are spot on and should put an end to this ridiculous witch hunt the big people are on. Little people should be in charge of horse racing.

I call for a vote right now to make Gary Stevens Ruler of Horse Racing. All those in favor?

I am a little person, height (and brain wise according to some).
I wish to be ruler.
Napoleon... of the single toenailed animals.

Goats have two toenails so I can avoid them.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Jim, did you happen to see the jocks wearing protective masks today at Santa Anita? What are they for? Oh yeah, kickback. Talk about trying to fit an agenda.

Nobody is debating the kickback at Santa Anita. There are rocks in the track. That is why the jocks are wearing the protective masks. The jocks say that at Santa Anita it feels like they are in a sand storm right now. It's really bad.

There is definitely a problem at Santa Anita. There is no doubt about that. The only point that ArlJim and myself are trying to make is that in general there is much less of an issue with kickback on synthetic tracks as compared to regular dirt.

One issue that could be a concern with synthetic tracks is the long term health risks of swallowing rubber and synthetic fibers. The chances are that most come-from-behind horses are going to swallow some dirt whether they are on a synthetic track or a natural track. I can't tell you what the long-term health consequences are of swallowing rubber and synthetic fibers but it seems like it certainly could not be good.

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

One issue that could be a concern with synthetic tracks is the long term health risks of swallowing rubber and synthetic fibers. The chances are that most come-from-behind horses are going to swallow some dirt whether they are on a synthetic track or a natural track. I can't tell you what the long-term health consequences are of swallowing rubber and synthetic fibers but it seems like it certainly could not be good.

Well they won't be the first animal on the track to swallow a rubber.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Well they won't be the first animal on the track to swallow a rubber.

jamie sanders?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Here is the latest update. As I said earlier, they are optimistic that the polymers developed by the Australian guy will allow the track to drain. He did a demonstration yesterday for some owners and trainers and they were impressed.
Even if this stuff works and the track does drain properly, I still think the track is awful. It wasn't great at Oak Tree but it was definitely better at Oak Tree than it is now. As bad as the dirt track was at Santa Anita the last few years, I still think it was better than what they have now.

Here is the link to the story with the latest update:

http://www.drf.com/news/article/91578.html

[The Bid]

Rupe, thanks for posting that

Why is the guy fixing cushion track a representitive of proride?

What significance does a bottle of water on a small isolated area of racetrack have with an inch of rain on a mile of racetrack?

Its pretty obvious once it rains out there you guys are doomed. Hopefully Santa Anita moves quickly to install a highgrade dirt once racing is cancelled again.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Rupe, thanks for posting that

Why is the guy fixing cushion track a representitive of proride?

What significance does a bottle of water on a small isolated area of racetrack have with an inch of rain on a mile of racetrack?

Its pretty obvious once it rains out there you guys are doomed. Hopefully Santa Anita moves quickly to install a highgrade dirt once racing is cancelled again.

To answer your first question, the people from Cushion Track tried to fix the track and they were not successful. They worked on the track for over 2 weeks in December to try to make it drain and their efforts failed. So I guess they talked to this guy from Proride and he thought he might be able to fix it, so they are giving it a shot.

To answer your 2nd question, in theory it shouldn't matter the size of the area that they test. If they pour an inch of water over a 50 square foot area or a 200 square foot area, if it drains then it drains. If it doesn't, then it doesn't. But as I said before, even if this new liquid solves the drainage problem, the surface is still horrible. It is rock hard underneath and loose on top. Alot of horses aren't handling the surface but worse than that, they are coming out of the races with injuries. At Del Mar, there were alot of horses that didn't handle the surface, but at least the surface was pretty safe. Most of the horses were coming out of races in one piece which is more than I can say for Santa Anita.

[Riot]

Here is the latest update. As I said earlier, they are optimistic that the polymers developed by the Australian guy will allow the track to drain. He did a demonstration yesterday for some owners and trainers and they were impressed.

This is pretty interesting stuff, the website for ProRide: www.prorideracing.com

They installed it last year at a TB training facility in Louisville.

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Nobody is debating the kickback at Santa Anita. There are rocks in the track. That is why the jocks are wearing the protective masks. The jocks say that at Santa Anita it feels like they are in a sand storm right now. It's really bad.

There is definitely a problem at Santa Anita. There is no doubt about that. The only point that ArlJim and myself are trying to make is that in general there is much less of an issue with kickback on synthetic tracks as compared to regular dirt.

One issue that could be a concern with synthetic tracks is the long term health risks of swallowing rubber and synthetic fibers. The chances are that most come-from-behind horses are going to swallow some dirt whether they are on a synthetic track or a natural track. I can't tell you what the long-term health consequences are of swallowing rubber and synthetic fibers but it seems like it certainly could not be good.

I would not worry about that a bit. Pass right through. I would be much more worried about swallowing dirt.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by pgardn

I would not worry about that a bit. Pass right through. I would be much more worried about swallowing dirt.

not necessarily.
they caution you about feeding hay from the ground, especially if you have particularly sandy soil, as a horse can injest a fair amount of sand over time and develop sand colic.
i also read about a horse who was a cribber-they had used belts as fencing material, and the horse damn near died. they removed an almost soccer-ball sized ball of rubber from his gut-it didn't pass thru, but kept getting larger the more he nibbled.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

not necessarily.
they caution you about feeding hay from the ground, especially if you have particularly sandy soil, as a horse can injest a fair amount of sand over time and develop sand colic.
i also read about a horse who was a cribber-they had used belts as fencing material, and the horse damn near died. they removed an almost soccer-ball sized ball of rubber from his gut-it didn't pass thru, but kept getting larger the more he nibbled.

Horses cannot breath through their mouths, so I doubt much is getting in through the mouth and then swallowed during or just after a race, as the epiglottis is closed down over the esophagus so the horse can breath. So ingestion isn't anything I'd worry about, be it synthetic, turf or dirt.

Nostrils are a concern, obviously. Vets routinely find alot of dirt in the trachea and larger bronchi after races, but particles of any composition (dirt, smog, AWT, dust, whatever) have to be very, very tiny (there is a particular micron size) to get further down the airways than the "supply tubes".

From the little available that I have read vets are seeing less mucus post-race days on the synthetics vs dirt (mucus is the body bringing irritants up and out of the larger airways), and less stuff in the larger airways. Maybe Chuck can comment on what his track vets have seen.

Obviously any dry, powdery surface (think dust) is a greater threat for stuff getting deeper into the lungs than a damper, heavier, larger particle (which gets caught upon inhalation in the sinuses and upper airways as it should be).

Sand isn't going to go very far generally, it's a big particle as far as the airways are concerned.

I, too, would be more worried about the dried manure, organic matter, fungal spores, etc in dirt than in a synthetic, if inhaled deeply.

I removed an intact set of pantyhose from a Labrador's stomach and intestine once

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Mumtaz

Horses cannot breath through their mouths, so I doubt much is getting in through the mouth and then swallowed during or just after a race, as the epiglottis is closed down over the esophagus so the horse can breath. So ingestion isn't anything I'd worry about, be it synthetic, turf or dirt.

Nostrils are a concern, obviously. Vets routinely find alot of dirt in the trachea and larger bronchi after races, but particles of any composition (dirt, smog, AWT, dust, whatever) have to be very, very tiny (there is a particular micron size) to get further down the airways than the "supply tubes".

From the little available that I have read vets are seeing less mucus post-race days on the synthetics vs dirt (mucus is the body bringing irritants up and out of the larger airways), and less stuff in the larger airways. Maybe Chuck can comment on what his track vets have seen.

Obviously any dry, powdery surface (think dust) is a greater threat for stuff getting deeper into the lungs than a damper, heavier, larger particle (which gets caught upon inhalation in the sinuses and upper airways as it should be).

Sand isn't going to go very far generally, it's a big particle as far as the airways are concerned.

I, too, would be more worried about the dried manure, organic matter, fungal spores, etc in dirt than in a synthetic, if inhaled deeply.

I removed an intact set of pantyhose from a Labrador's stomach and intestine once

yeah, no doubt the lungs would be a larger concern when actually racing-my part about ingestion was in regard to pg talking about swallowing dirt.
hopefully they won't find any health issues down the road due to the track--of course all that smog in cali hasn't hurt them, so maybe they're pretty resilient!!

[The Bid]

Oh they will find something in time. These morons didnt have the sense to test any of this **** prior to installation. We just decided to wing it, good idea. Idiots

Originally Posted by Danzig

yeah, no doubt the lungs would be a larger concern when actually racing-my part about ingestion was in regard to pg talking about swallowing dirt.
hopefully they won't find any health issues down the road due to the track--of course all that smog in cali hasn't hurt them, so maybe they're pretty resilient!!

Since you mentioned cribbing Z.
I figured out a really neat thing
that works down here in the barn
my wife has her horse.

If you do own a horse, or ever own one
I got something that really works well
that would probably work all year in warmer
weather areas. On Rubber, wood, whatever.

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by Danzig

yeah, no doubt the lungs would be a larger concern when actually racing-my part about ingestion was in regard to pg talking about swallowing dirt.
hopefully they won't find any health issues down the road due to the track--of course all that smog in cali hasn't hurt them, so maybe they're pretty resilient!!

Air Quality Index

Dallas Texas 30AQI

New York, N.Y. 45AQI

L.A. California 31AQI

Little Rock, Arkansas 'Well I can tell you it's real clear today so I guess the # would be 15, yes today is the 15th.

The air in L.A. is better than you think.

Originally Posted by Danzig

not necessarily.
they caution you about feeding hay from the ground, especially if you have particularly sandy soil, as a horse can injest a fair amount of sand over time and develop sand colic.
i also read about a horse who was a cribber-they had used belts as fencing material, and the horse damn near died. they removed an almost soccer-ball sized ball of rubber from his gut-it didn't pass thru, but kept getting larger the more he nibbled.

Watch when a horse eats.
They grab with the big rubbery lips
and they pull. Sometimes just grass tears off.
But some of the time some of the grass with roots
also comes up. All kinds of crud hang on the roots.

Horses take in all sorts of crud.
And they colic more often when supplemented
with the very high calorie stuff, too much grain and
sweet crap.

[The Bid]

My agenda is the truth.

Gomez says that and straps on a hockey visor, lets just stick to the facts.