It happened again! (End tote malfunction)

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

We should just ignore it I guess. No big deal, business as usual. Fuk the bettors. We wouldn't want to move to 1990s technology just yet.

I doubt that you personally are "doing" anything about the problem. If so please enlighten me to your contributions other than criticism of me personally.

If this issue is too great for you to overcome maybe you should abandon horse racing until the problem is solved and focus your energies on the Belgium bobsledding team.

Oh boy.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I doubt that you personally are "doing" anything about the problem. If so please enlighten me to your contributions other than criticism of me personally.

If this issue is too great for you to overcome maybe you should abandon horse racing until the problem is solved and focus your energies on the Belgium bobsledding team.

First off, I'm not from Belgium. Second, I do my share. I write to those that might help. I've written to many racetracks when there are issues. As an example, I've written to Churchill about there ridiculous odds drops at Calder. I've written to Suffolk about the lack of turf fractions. They haven't fixed it, so I don't bet turf races there. I've written to Gulfstream too many times to count about phony times and timer malfunctions, i.e. missing fractions and final times. Ditto for Lone Star. I've also had several letters to the editor published in the DRF. It doesn't mean I can't share my feelings on a message board as well, does it? What more should I do? Take time out from bobsled practice and fly back home and picket at the latest offending track?

It is true that I do SOME wagering off shore. Why? Well, the main reason is because the sport doesn't allow me to bet onshore while residing in Belgium, with the exception of two companies. This despite being very much an American citizen. Guess what, those two don't cover all the tracks. Do you know why I am aware of what is happening at a large number of tracks? Because I bet nearly ALL of them.

I don't know you personally, so I hardly have any dislike for you. What I do dislike is the attitude you displayed the "first" time this happened. As I said before, this isn't the only message board on the net, and there is one very popular one where past posting of wagering has long been a topic.

Why a guy in your position would tell a guy like me, that bets a lot, to stop wagering is beyond me.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

First off, I'm not from Belgium. Second, I do my share. I write to those that might help. I've written to many racetracks when there are issues. As an example, I've written to Churchill about there ridiculous odds drops at Calder. I've written to Suffolk about the lack of turf fractions. They haven't fixed it, so I don't bet turf races there. I've written to Gulfstream too many times to count about phony times and timer malfunctions, i.e. missing fractions and final times. Ditto for Lone Star. I've also had several letters to the editor published in the DRF. It doesn't mean I can't share my feelings on a message board as well, does it? What more should I do? Take time out from bobsled practice and fly back home and picket at the latest offending track?

It is true that I do SOME wagering off shore. Why? Well, the main reason is because the sport doesn't allow me to bet onshore while residing in Belgium, with the exception of two companies. This despite being very much an American citizen. Guess what, those two don't cover all the tracks. Do you know why I am aware of what is happening at a large number of tracks? Because I bet nearly ALL of them.

I don't know you personally, so I hardly have any dislike for you. What I do dislike is the attitude you displayed the "first" time this happened. As I said before, this isn't the only message board on the net, and there is one very popular one where past posting of wagering has long been a topic.

Why a guy in your position would tell a guy like me, that bets a lot, to stop wagering is beyond me.

A guy in what position? Your attitude that I should personally owe you something because you bet is something that I dislike. You dont bet for my benefit nor does anyone else. You are trying to make money, not support horseracing or horseman. I think it is important that you write letters but I also think that the only way you will get the tracks to listen to you is through a wide campaign or even better show them financially. If the other boards are doing something like this then why dont you bring it here?

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

A guy in what position? Your attitude that I should personally owe you something because you bet is something that I dislike. You dont bet for my benefit nor does anyone else. You are trying to make money, not support horseracing or horseman. I think it is important that you write letters but I also think that the only way you will get the tracks to listen to you is through a wide campaign or even better show them financially. If the other boards are doing something like this then why dont you bring it here?

What position? Well, a position that wouldn't exist without betting.

I didn't say you owe me anything. However, when you brush aside bettors getting a raw deal because of poor technology, I'll respond every time. It is typical of those that work on the backside and in management. Not everyone of course, but the majority.

I've posted plenty of dumb comments on message boards. Usually, I'll realize it eventually, and I'm pretty stubborn. If my posts here seem like they are personal, you'll just have to get over it.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

What position? Well, a position that wouldn't exist without betting.

I didn't say you owe me anything. However, when you brush aside bettors getting a raw deal because of poor technology, I'll respond every time. It is typical of those that work on the backside and in management. Not everyone of course, but the majority.

I've posted plenty of dumb comments on message boards. Usually, I'll realize it eventually, and I'm pretty stubborn. If my posts here seem like they are personal, you'll just have to get over it.

Please spare me the 'you wouldnt have a job without us' crap. I am well aware of the place where bettors exist in the grand scheme of horse racing. If you ever took the time to read many of my other posts on the subject of the gambler and his/her importance you would see where I stand.

I still believe that this subject has been vastly blown out of proportion by some and I have yet to see anything posted here that would change my mind. The tote system that is in place now may need to be modernized but some seem to be saying that people or persons are unfairly taking advantage of the system. If true then it should be a criminal investigation. But mechanical errors are just that. Errors.

I will tell you what else is typical is the arrogance of those who bet who constantly think that the sport is always doing wrong by them. We screwed the bettors with artificial tracks. We screwed the bettors with too many Breeders Cup races. We screwed the bettors with a 10 cent supers. I would tell anyone that if you dont feel that horse racing is on the up and up then dont play. No one is forcing you to play horses. Not because I benefit or not. But because if you truly dont think things are fair or you are getting a raw deal why continue?

It is the same argument that people make when horses are DQ'ed for medication positives. They want their money back. The Bettors got screwed!!! But what about the bettors that cashed on those races? Do they offer to pay back the money they unjustly won? Because that is who has "your" money. The other bettors who benefited. Not the track. Not the horseman.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Please spare me the 'you wouldnt have a job without us' crap. I am well aware of the place where bettors exist in the grand scheme of horse racing. If you ever took the time to read many of my other posts on the subject of the gambler and his/her importance you would see where I stand.

I still believe that this subject has been vastly blown out of proportion by some and I have yet to see anything posted here that would change my mind. The tote system that is in place now may need to be modernized but some seem to be saying that people or persons are unfairly taking advantage of the system. If true then it should be a criminal investigation. But mechanical errors are just that. Errors.

I will tell you what else is typical is the arrogance of those who bet who constantly think that the sport is always doing wrong by them. We screwed the bettors with artificial tracks. We screwed the bettors with too many Breeders Cup races. We screwed the bettors with a 10 cent supers. I would tell anyone that if you dont feel that horse racing is on the up and up then dont play. No one is forcing you to play horses. Not because I benefit or not. But because if you truly dont think things are fair or you are getting a raw deal why continue?

It is the same argument that people make when horses are DQ'ed for medication positives. They want their money back. The Bettors got screwed!!! But what about the bettors that cashed on those races? Do they offer to pay back the money they unjustly won? Because that is who has "your" money. The other bettors who benefited. Not the track. Not the horseman.

OK Cannon. I'll stick to betting, you stick to training and pontificating on anything related to horses, and everything else for that matter. Your record certainly speaks for itself.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

OK Cannon. I'll stick to betting, you stick to training and pontificating on anything related to horses, and everything else for that matter. Your record certainly speaks for itself.

Coming from an Orioles fan, that really hurts

[Scav]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

OK Cannon. I'll stick to betting, you stick to training and pontificating on anything related to horses, and everything else for that matter. Your record certainly speaks for itself.

Here we go

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Scav

Here we go

Seriously, is there any subject Cannon doesn't know more about than anyone else here?

I'm sure I've worn out my welcome here. Oh well. I'll "get over it".

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Scav

Here we go

What can I say? I am a gambler-hating backstretch guy who can't believe that bettors are getting screwed on a daily basis by the evil past posters. Can not believe Joe Bruno or Spitzer hasn't jumped on this yet.

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

This response sucks. The reason you were brought up, is because the first time this was brought up you said it was a one time thing and "get over it." Well obviously it is not a one time thing. It's a problem, plain and simple and another way bettors are getting screwed. Who cares though right? Not like the bettors matter as you have demonstrated here. What would you like the bettor to do to solve this problem? Please, enlighten me.

Just admit that he's right...because that's really what it's all about.

[philcski]

Past posting is more than a chronic annoying issue, it's a detriment to the game. How many times does a front runner's odds drop at the 1/4 pole? They virtually NEVER go up midrace, which debunks the tracks' claim that it's due to late money not tallied yet. Obviously someone with a lot of capital has access to the pools past the time the gates open more than some crappy "expose" of some schmucks betting $81 on an even money shot and it getting caught by the track.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by philcski

Past posting is more than a chronic annoying issue, it's a detriment to the game. How many times does a front runner's odds drop at the 1/4 pole? They virtually NEVER go up midrace, which debunks the tracks' claim that it's due to late money not tallied yet. Obviously someone with a lot of capital has access to the pools past the time the gates open more than some crappy "expose" of some schmucks betting $81 on an even money shot and it getting caught by the track.

The odds drop in most cases because the money getting bet late off track takes time to get into the system, not because people are betting at the 1/4 pole. Correct me if I am wrong but I believe it goes on 60 second cycles which obviously are too long.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The odds drop in most cases because the money getting bet late off track takes time to get into the system, not because people are betting at the 1/4 pole. Correct me if I am wrong but I believe it goes on 60 second cycles which obviously are too long.

Yeah, but my cynisism (sp?) arises from the fact that nearly ALL odds changes on front runners is to the downside (yes I've actually tracked it), which have a more even distribution of odds changes up AND down if it were merely pool data collection was incomplete. I'm 99.9% sure there are people past posting all over the country, every day.

I think it's 30 second cycles, can someone confirm as such?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by philcski

Yeah, but my cynisism (sp?) arises from the fact that nearly ALL odds changes on front runners is to the downside (yes I've actually tracked it), which have a more even distribution of odds changes up AND down if it were merely pool data collection was incomplete. I'm 99.9% sure there are people past posting all over the country, every day.
I think it's 30 second cycles, can someone confirm as such?

That is very hard to believe.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

This response sucks. The reason you were brought up, is because the first time this was brought up you said it was a one time thing and "get over it." Well obviously it is not a one time thing. It's a problem, plain and simple and another way bettors are getting screwed. Who cares though right? Not like the bettors matter as you have demonstrated here. What would you like the bettor to do to solve this problem? Please, enlighten me.

Oh get off your high horse. I said that "they said it was a one time thing" and I had no reason not to believe them. This was at Aqueduct which is not the Fair Grounds last I looked. You both act as I have something to do with the problem. The problem I'm sure has been around as long as tote systems have been around and most likely occurs less now than ever. The difference is that now information is much more readily available and people, like me, are becoming more aware of the issue.

The bettors 'dont matter crap' is tiresome. In the entire history of horseracing the bettors have never been considered or listened to more than they are now. Are things perfect? Of course not, but if you look back 20 years you will see things have improved considerably.

As a horseman should I chastise you if you bet with an off shore acount that pays a rebate? I mean you are betting on the product that we put on yet we are receiving no revenue from it. Do you feel guilty that you are hurting the sport for your own personal gain? It goes both ways, dude.

As for what you can do? Write letters, document your wagering and say it will be moved to other locations if the problem isn't addresses. Bring it up on these boards before it is written about in the paper. Call in to Steve's radio show and air your gripes in public. Start a petition that gets big enough that it gets some publicity. Or just bitch at me and whine that bettors are getting screwed and keep on betting.

That sucks

Oh this was at a different track so you're still right.

Yeah we should do a million degenerate gambler march on Washington to get our message across.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Oh this was at a different track so you're still right.

Yeah we should do a million degenerate gambler march on Washington to get our message across.

Or you can do nothing and make witty internet posts.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Or you can do nothing and make witty internet posts.

Yeah that's what I'll do because I don't work for a racetrack and it isn't my job to update Windows NT for the stupiD *********** that you defend.