Scat Daddy retired

[ELA]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

No one is saying that they should run the horse again. But the thinking that a psuedo good horse like Scat Daddy had accomplished so much to warrant early retirement if not injured is sad. I would not personally knock a person for selling a horse for profit because profits are so hard to come by in this business. But a horse like Scat Daddy's value wont go down if he loses a few races but it might have gone up he had won a legit fall stake. (not that I think he would have)

Chuck, I see your point, however, the downside with more than one loss is far greater than the upside of a win (which should almost be expected depending on the spot). Much of what will sell a horse like this at stud is the "hype" or the "what could have been" kind of thing.

Yes, it is sad -- very sad. I agree. However, he loses a couple of races, the reality of the situation is no longer hidden -- as it might be now to some people. Don't forget -- it's not you and me sending mares to this stud.

Eric

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ELA

Chuck, I see your point, however, the downside with more than one loss is far greater than the upside of a win (which should almost be expected depending on the spot). Much of what will sell a horse like this at stud is the "hype" or the "what could have been" kind of thing.

Yes, it is sad -- very sad. I agree. However, he loses a couple of races, the reality of the situation is no longer hidden -- as it might be now to some people. Don't forget -- it's not you and me sending mares to this stud.

Eric

Eric
I disagree that his value is predicated on "hype" or "buzz". He won Grade 1 2 year old stakes and a Grade 1 Derby prep. He is by a "hot" stallion. His value is secure regardless of how many races he lost. He will probably stand for somewhere between $30-$40k. If he were to win the Travers and/or Haskell or a race like that, he would have been worth a lot more. Personally I never thought he was great but he did accomplish more than most stallions that will enter stud next year.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Eric
I disagree that his value is predicated on "hype" or "buzz". He won Grade 1 2 year old stakes and a Grade 1 Derby prep. He is by a "hot" stallion. His value is secure regardless of how many races he lost. He will probably stand for somewhere between $30-$40k. If he were to win the Travers and/or Haskell or a race like that, he would have been worth a lot more. Personally I never thought he was great but he did accomplish more than most stallions that will enter stud next year.

Chuck, don't get me wrong -- the colt isn't a nobody. However, I just don't think he was that good of a colt. The talk about him being at or very near the head of the class, early on, seemed to be a bit of overhype to me. G1's without question cannot be dismissed.

Winning the Travers, to me is a huge "if" and although it may be rhetorical, I think it was more probable that he didn't win than possible he did. I think his value is maxed out right now, unless he went on to win something else of substance, and in order to maintain that value, he certainly can't afford to get beat where he would be a strong favorite. Winning a race like that doesn't add to value, but losing one can diminish value.

The hype I refer to is merely the fact that I think they have to build him up to command and fill a book at the $40k price range -- and personally, I think that's too high. I am not a pedigree expert or bloodstock agent, but I think $30k might be more like it -- speaking from a market perspective -- and I am not sure he fills a book at that level (legitimately I mean, LOL). At $30k, or $40k, personally, I want to breed to one hell of a horse (with everything else considered) -- and to me, he's just not "that" kind of horse.

I see your points and I think he'll be a nice their stallion somewhere, relatively speaking get some nice mares, etc. I just feel that value is maxed now -- more downside than up. I guess we'll never know, LOL.

Eric

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ELA

Chuck, don't get me wrong -- the colt isn't a nobody. However, I just don't think he was that good of a colt. The talk about him being at or very near the head of the class, early on, seemed to be a bit of overhype to me. G1's without question cannot be dismissed.

Winning the Travers, to me is a huge "if" and although it may be rhetorical, I think it was more probable that he didn't win than possible he did. I think his value is maxed out right now, unless he went on to win something else of substance, and in order to maintain that value, he certainly can't afford to get beat where he would be a strong favorite. Winning a race like that doesn't add to value, but losing one can diminish value.

The hype I refer to is merely the fact that I think they have to build him up to command and fill a book at the $40k price range -- and personally, I think that's too high. I am not a pedigree expert or bloodstock agent, but I think $30k might be more like it -- speaking from a market perspective -- and I am not sure he fills a book at that level (legitimately I mean, LOL). At $30k, or $40k, personally, I want to breed to one hell of a horse (with everything else considered) -- and to me, he's just not "that" kind of horse.

I see your points and I think he'll be a nice their stallion somewhere, relatively speaking get some nice mares, etc. I just feel that value is maxed now -- more downside than up. I guess we'll never know, LOL.

Eric

Eric
I am not saying that I like the horse as a racehorse or a stallion prospect. But compare him to horses with similar race records and pedigrees and you get Lion Heart and First Samurai. I'm not trying to argue that he is as good or bad as these horses but they have similar credentials and I believe LH is 25k and FS is 40. Both got very sizable books.
You can't take away his positives and I don't think there is anyone, breeders included who thought he was a super horse. But IF he were to have won a big race or 2 in the fall, his stud fee (since his value is immaterial being Coolmore owned) would have risen. And if he had lost a couple, it would still be where it will be.

[sumitas]

he does have a good resume. compare him to Sharp Humor at $12.5k i believe and one can see him going for the $30-$40k range initially...he was near the top of his class before his foot problems surfaced prior to the Derby.

[Bobby Fischer]

The only thing good about Scat Daddy is that he is a pretty well formed Johannesburg.
He isn't one of the smallish Johannesburgs. At least he has some good size and is a pretty nice animal.

But what are you paying for?
somewhat precocious , versatile and has moderate speed.

Nice horse for the cheaper races.


Even Johannesburg is way overrated as a sire of classic distance dirt runners.

There is a market for these animals and you basically have to breed and sell a Scat Daddy, but I am not saying they are worth market value.

[sumitas]

he is closely inbred to Mr Prospector, 2x3 and i guess you got the good and the bad with that mating.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Eric
I am not saying that I like the horse as a racehorse or a stallion prospect. But compare him to horses with similar race records and pedigrees and you get Lion Heart and First Samurai. I'm not trying to argue that he is as good or bad as these horses but they have similar credentials and I believe LH is 25k and FS is 40. Both got very sizable books.
You can't take away his positives and I don't think there is anyone, breeders included who thought he was a super horse. But IF he were to have won a big race or 2 in the fall, his stud fee (since his value is immaterial being Coolmore owned) would have risen. And if he had lost a couple, it would still be where it will be.

Here's the difference... Lion Heart actually ran a few fast races in his career... Scat Daddy never did. I'd go to Lion Heart in a flash over Scat Daddy at the same price.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by philcski

Here's the difference... Lion Heart actually ran a few fast races in his career... Scat Daddy never did. I'd go to Lion Heart in a flash over Scat Daddy at the same price.

Excellent point.

Eric

[sumitas]

Lion Heart commands $25k...

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by philcski

Here's the difference... Lion Heart actually ran a few fast races in his career... Scat Daddy never did. I'd go to Lion Heart in a flash over Scat Daddy at the same price.

It is a little more complicated than that

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Well actually you breed a mare to the stallion, you dont actually get bred yourself... though I'm sure that some farms may make special considerations....

LOL

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

It is a little more complicated than that

...like the fact that poor Lion Heart was bred to so many mares last year he won't be able to "get the job done?"