Corinthian - YES

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I have never got the appeal of Steppenwolfer. Seems like a plodder to me. Trainer always saying how great he is doing, yet horse just doesn't win. Sucked up a lot in Arkansas, Kentucky and then everyone was ga ga over him in the Belmont. Has yet to run a race that would put him anywhere in the same zip code as Invasor, Discreet Cat or Premium Tap IMO.

Who has? The Essex and Razorback will be good tests. If he can't step up and win one of them then he isn't half the horse I think he is. If he can then I think he has as good a chance as anybody not in the the top three you mentioned and as we've learned from past years the chances of the top three in January being among the top three come BC Day are slim to none and less than that when none are geldings and all three are going to Dubai. A lot of people made the mistake of assuming that because he was a closer he'd like more distance last year. This is a one run closer that seems like he will be most effective around 8.5 to 9 furlongs.

As far as Corinthian goes, to suggest that he'll be in claimers because of his allowance comeback in ludicrous, he practically flipped over in the gate. The horse is loaded with talent, he just needs to get his head on straight. He'll never be in claimers since he's worth more than $100,000 as it is. If they gelded him I bet he'd be a top horse but chances of that happening are less than Discreet Cat running in the BC Classic ten months from now. More than likely he's still a headcase and is retired to stud. If (and this is a big if) he does get his head on straight though it would be quite foolish for people to overlook him.

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Who has? The Essex and Razorback will be good tests. If he can't step up and win one of them then he isn't half the horse I think he is. If he can then I think he has as good a chance as anybody not in the the top three you mentioned and as we've learned from past years the chances of the top three in January being among the top three come BC Day are slim to none and less than that when none are geldings and all three are going to Dubai. A lot of people made the mistake of assuming that because he was a closer he'd like more distance last year. This is a one run closer that seems like he will be most effective around 8.5 to 9 furlongs.

As far as Corinthian goes, to suggest that he'll be in claimers because of his allowance comeback in ludicrous, he practically flipped over in the gate. The horse is loaded with talent, he just needs to get his head on straight. He'll never be in claimers since he's worth more than $100,000 as it is. If they gelded him I bet he'd be a top horse but chances of that happening are less than Discreet Cat running in the BC Classic ten months from now. More than likely he's still a headcase and is retired to stud. If (and this is a big if) he does get his head on straight though it would be quite foolish for people to overlook him.

Corinthian has never really run a "great" race......until he does I dont think much of him. The claimers thing was sarcastic.....of course they wont let him go in a claiming race.....even if thats where he will be the most competitive down the road...

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by stonegossard

Corinthian has never really run a "great" race......until he does I dont think much of him. The claimers thing was sarcastic.....of course they wont let him go in a claiming race.....even if thats where he will be the most competitive down the road...

I totally agree. Sure, he has some ability, but nowhere near what people were saying ( and apparently still are ) after his win in the very bad Fountain of Youth last year. While he is a bit of a bad actor, there have been many of those in the past, and it isn't a viable excuse for his real problem....a reasonable case of the slows.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I totally agree. Sure, he has some ability, but nowhere near what people were saying ( and apparently still are ) after his win in the very bad Fountain of Youth last year. While he is a bit of a bad actor, there have been many of those in the past, and it isn't a viable excuse for his real problem....a reasonable case of the slows.

What makes you think he doesnt have the ability that some believe he may have? What has the horse done wrong? Granted he hasnt dont much to pop your eye balls out. But he only has 5 starts. 2 wins (3 if you get past the DQ) and 1 place and one poor performance in his comeback race this summer when he almost flipped at the gate. I really think the jury is still out on this horse.

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I totally agree. Sure, he has some ability, but nowhere near what people were saying ( and apparently still are ) after his win in the very bad Fountain of Youth last year. While he is a bit of a bad actor, there have been many of those in the past, and it isn't a viable excuse for his real problem....a reasonable case of the slows.

Yeah...has some ability. But until he shows he wasnt a one race wonder I will continue to ridicule him......saying he will be a threat to the handicap division is rather comical.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by stonegossard

Corinthian has never really run a "great" race......until he does I dont think much of him. The claimers thing was sarcastic.....of course they wont let him go in a claiming race.....even if thats where he will be the most competitive down the road...

There are only two horses returning in the older male division that have run a great race and one that has run a very good one in Premium Tap. Behind them it is pretty wide open.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

There are only two horses returning in the older male division that have run a great race and one that has run a very good one in Premium Tap. Behind them it is pretty wide open.

True, but Corinthian is behind quite a few at this point. You can say the potential gap isn't that big, but considering he ran a couple fair races a year ago, and one terrible race six months ago, I would say Corinthian is more than a longshot, and really just one of those names people like to say " what if " about....when really they should be saying " never was ".

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

True, but Corinthian is behind quite a few at this point. You can say the potential gap isn't that big, but considering he ran a couple fair races a year ago, and one terrible race six months ago, I would say Corinthian is more than a longshot, and really just one of those names people like to say " what if " about....when really they should be saying " never was ".

I believe there is a lot of talent there if he can ever harness his energy into the race rather than wasting it all pre-race. Unfortunately the only way that is likely to happen is with the ultimate equipment change which is doubtful to ever happen. More than likely he'll never show that talent and will fit perfectly with your notion that he never had much to begin with. But then again, there is always the chance he does get his head on straight. At the very least he will be interesting to watch in his first two races back.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I believe there is a lot of talent there if he can ever harness his energy into the race rather than wasting it all pre-race. Unfortunately the only way that is likely to happen is with the ultimate equipment change which is doubtful to ever happen. More than likely he'll never show that talent and will fit perfectly with your notion that he never had much to begin with. But then again, there is always the chance he does get his head on straight. At the very least he will be interesting to watch in his first two races back.

Sorry, I'm not a built-in-excuse guy. You either think he will do well or you don't.

I don't. You seem to feel regardless of what he does you are correct...you are not.

By the way.....any other Jimmy Jerkens horses you have unrealistic expectations about that I need to be aware of?

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Sorry, I'm not a built-in-excuse guy. You either think he will do well or you don't.

I don't. You seem to feel regardless of what he does you are correct...you are not.

By the way.....any other Jimmy Jerkens horses you have unrealistic expectations about that I need to be aware of?

Well it's tough when gelding the horse isn't a decision I can make. If that happened I think he'd be a very good horse. As it is I think the chance of him not amounting to much is a lot more likely than becoming a very good horse. Doesn't mean I'm not going to hope that he does magically get his act together and become a top horse or discount the possibility that it could happen. I don't really see why they'd bring him back this year if they didn't think it could happen.

It's funny that I like two different Jimmy Jerkens horses. I couldn't pick the guy out of a lineup and don't know anything about him yet Corinthian and Sir Greeley are two of my favorite horses out there.

Oh, and I'm thinking the chances of Sir Greeley winning a G1 this year aren't looking too bad right now. I think the Carter and Met Mile are both ripe for the picking. Latent Heat is the frontrunner for the Carter at least and he's never struck me as that great of a horse. Latent Heat and Sun King will probably be the frontrunners for the Met Mile unless Discreet Cat shows up and neither of them are unbeatable either. Unfortunately with his recent record he's more likely to run 2nd in both than win either.

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

There are only two horses returning in the older male division that have run a great race and one that has run a very good one in Premium Tap. Behind them it is pretty wide open.

I agree. Definetly wide open. Premium tap looks like the real deal. Invasor is a monster. Who knows where Discreet Cat will end up. Lava Man has zero shot running outside of Cali...he should stay out there beating up on former claimers/hasbeens. Sweetnorthernsaint to me is a a nice horse....but has yet to prove he is top tier. Chatain looks like a very promising horse...lightly raced....I know he had a nice set up in last...but man...great race. One of my old favorites is supposedly gonna run again...Brass Hat....but he is coming off of a few bad injuries...if he was to get back to 100 percent he would be a top threat. SHould be an interesting year in the older division.

[Danzig]

once upon a time older horses like cigar used to run at oaklawn. it's a shame that it's lost some of its luster, but too much competition for the top older males this time of year.
but at least we still have the apple blossom--and of course more emphasis was put on the three year old preps.

[Dunbar]

I'm more excited about the prospect of seeing how good Achilles of Troy is than I am about watching either Steppenwolfer or Corinthian.

Bullet work yesterday.

--Dunbar