Holiday Week/Weekend Stakes Beyers

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by freddymo

I am waiting to see the Malibu v LaBrea figs. If you use 102 for taiba the filly fig is a few points too high. I am not sure you can use less than 102 for him, and even that is sort of low, given he won by 4+ lengths

Underwhelming performance in an underwhelming field.

Hard ridden throughout, struggled to match strides with the unheralded Straight No Chaser (who by the looks of his stride in the stretch--and subsequent wilt--could use a few months off), and did just enough to keep a bunch of midwest allowance horses and some old Santa Anita Derby also-rans from putting any pressure on him late.

My prediction for the rest of his career:

2nd in the Saudi Cup
last in the San Diego
retired

To be fair, that could be Country Grammer's 2023 campaign, too.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Underwhelming performance in an underwhelming field.

Hard ridden throughout, struggled to match strides with the unheralded Straight No Chaser (who by the looks of his stride in the stretch--and subsequent wilt--could use a few months off), and did just enough to keep a bunch of midwest allowance horses and some old Santa Anita Derby also-rans from putting any pressure on him late.

My prediction for the rest of his career:

2nd in the Saudi Cup
last in the San Diego
retired

To be fair, that could be Country Grammer's 2023 campaign, too.

I do not doubt your prediction. It's hard to have imagined that he would still be winning G1 races on 12/26 after being rushed into the SA derby and Derby. I thought Country Grammer ran his best race in a long time. I bet against him and was dead wrong. Steve is happy Baffert didn't win six as there is a clause in the At the Races handbook that if you win 6, you automatically regain the Tuesday 1140 AM time slot on the show. I am joking, steve

[freddymo]

106 for Malibu and 94 for Labrea... Tough number to make

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by freddymo

I do not doubt your prediction. It's hard to have imagined that he would still be winning G1 races on 12/26 after being rushed into the SA derby and Derby. I thought Country Grammer ran his best race in a long time. I bet against him and was dead wrong. Steve is happy Baffert didn't win six as there is a clause in the At the Races handbook that if you win 6, you automatically regain the Tuesday 1140 AM time slot on the show. I am joking, steve

Yeah, Taiba still winning Grade 1 races over some Mahoning Valley also-ran and two Derby trail disasters with airway issues.

Country Grammer looked good beating Stilleto Boy; puts him in the top 100 of horses that raced in 2022 for sure...

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Yeah, Taiba still winning Grade 1 races over some Mahoning Valley also-ran and two Derby trail disasters with airway issues.

Country Grammer looked good beating Stilleto Boy; puts him in the top 100 of horses that raced in 2022 for sure...

I bet Stilleto Boy went from 8/1 to 5/1 in the last flash. I thought being 9.5 he raced well and I get Stilleto Boy isn't that much but he had run some good figs and races earlier in the year. He isn't great and the field was subpar that said Country Grammer ran well IMO

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by freddymo

He isn't great and the field was subpar that said Country Grammer ran well IMO

No disputing he ran well (he won after all), but if you are proposing it was a much better effort than all his previous runner up performances behind better horses (Flightline) and old rivals he's never gotten the best of (Royal Ship), I don't particularly agree.

And if he did run an improved race, what does that mean in the greater scheme of things? I suppose he can win the Big Cap and/or Hollywood Gold Cup (but he likely won't cuz he'll probably go to the middle east).

If you think his Dubai World Cup was some sort of landmark performance, I'm pretty sure most of the also-rans in that race were coming from the middle east's answer to Mahoning Valley...

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

No disputing he ran well (he won after all), but if you are proposing it was a much better effort than all his previous runner up performances behind better horses (Flightline) and old rivals he's never gotten the best of (Royal Ship), I don't particularly agree.

And if he did run an improved race, what does that mean in the greater scheme of things? I suppose he can win the Big Cap and/or Hollywood Gold Cup (but he likely won't cuz he'll probably go to the middle east).

If you think his Dubai World Cup was some sort of landmark performance, I'm pretty sure most of the also-rans in that race were coming from the middle east's answer to Mahoning Valley...

He was engaged throughout the race, albeit against ordinary, for a superior plodder like him, that was a step in the right direction. With a big win in the Kingdom of plenty, he could be the most financially successful grade 1.5 horse of All Time.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Underwhelming performance in an underwhelming field.

Hard ridden throughout, struggled to match strides with the unheralded Straight No Chaser (who by the looks of his stride in the stretch--and subsequent wilt--could use a few months off), and did just enough to keep a bunch of midwest allowance horses and some old Santa Anita Derby also-rans from putting any pressure on him late.

My prediction for the rest of his career:

2nd in the Saudi Cup
last in the San Diego
retired

To be fair, that could be Country Grammer's 2023 campaign, too.

I give Taiba credit for still finishing fairly well after being taken a bit out of his game to chase the quick pace. The race was actually closer to a half a second faster than the La Brea ( if you correctly time the races ) but still, in relative terms, it was a bit underwhelming. Like Freddy, though, I give him a ton of credit for surviving the foolish early handling and think he's better than you do.

I would vote for Epicenter, I intentionally do not have a vote, as 3YO champ but it's fair to say Taiba made more than a reasonable case to win the Eclipse. I wouldn't argue with someone that gave him the award, I just think overall Epicenter deserves it more. It's close.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I give Taiba credit for still finishing fairly well after being taken a bit out of his game to chase the quick pace. The race was actually closer to a half a second faster than the La Brea ( if you correctly time the races ) but still, in relative terms, it was a bit underwhelming. Like Freddy, though, I give him a ton of credit for surviving the foolish early handling and think he's better than you do.

Taiba is a nice horse but he'll never realize his full potential considering what he's been put through. I don't bank on him making more than 3 or 4 starts next year, if that.

I'm not sold on the whole "he's not a sprinter" post-race vibe from his connections; Smith is usually full of BS, it's not like Baffert can't put speed into a horse, and Taiba broke like a shot, dueled a rival into submission, and drew clear in 1:09+ (good for a triple digit BSF) in his belated career debut.

I would vote for Epicenter, I intentionally do not have a vote, as 3YO champ but it's fair to say Taiba made more than a reasonable case to win the Eclipse. I wouldn't argue with someone that gave him the award, I just think overall Epicenter deserves it more. It's close.

If Epicenter retired after the Travers he might actually garner more support; some people might not be drawing a line through his BC Classic.

Still, Epicenter should have absolutely been in the Belmont and could have had the requisite classic win that would easily trump Taiba's manhandling of the overrated Forbidden Kingdom.

[Kasept]

Cyberknife deserves at least some discussion in this. Isn’t he the 3yo champ free and clear if the Dirt Mile goes his way?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Cyberknife deserves at least some discussion in this. Isn’t he the 3yo champ free and clear if the Dirt Mile goes his way?

No. He got drowned by Epicenter and proved inferior to Taiba in their two meetings. The BC Dirt Mile is pretty much an irrelevant race ( even though he ran extremely well ).

He might be third over Modern Games.

Don't worry, Al will still ( eventually ) speak to you if you're honest.

I'd write more on this subject, but I intentionally don't have a further opinion!

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

I'd write more on this subject, but I intentionally don't have a further opinion!

I would rather read a posted opinion, even if I thought it was silly vs. reading a cryptic post on how I can't read it.

[cakes44]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Cyberknife deserves at least some discussion in this. Isn’t he the 3yo champ free and clear if the Dirt Mile goes his way?

I think Cyberknife is a good measuring stick between Taiba and Epicenter.

Taiba lost to Cyberknife, while Epicenter trounced Cyberknife.