Holiday Week/Weekend Stakes Beyers

I know he was odds on and much the best.

However, I thought Mike Smiths ride on TAIBA yesterday was very good.

He clearly knows that horse very well.

Have to think that sews up a 3yo Eclipse.

Agree?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

I know he was odds on and much the best.

However, I thought Mike Smiths ride on TAIBA yesterday was very good.

He clearly knows that horse very well.

Have to think that sews up a 3yo Eclipse.

Agree?

It comes down to what you think of the group he beat yesterday and your thoughts on epicenter. Jack Christopher not finishing the year didn't hurt Taiba's chances. What do you make of Forbidden Kingdom? They did everything they could to ruin Taiba and they didn't. Mandella did everything to make Forbidden Kingdom better and they didn't. Tale of two horses

Originally Posted by freddymo

It comes down to what you think of the group he beat yesterday and your thoughts on epicenter. Jack Christopher not finishing the year didn't hurt Taiba's chances. What do you make of Forbidden Kingdom? They did everything they could to ruin Taiba and they didn't. Mandella did everything to make Forbidden Kingdom better and they didn't. Tale of two horses

I thought Forbidden Kingdom ran very well.

Not sure Eclipse voters take field strength into account that much.

Three Grade 1's vs one for Epicenter makes me think Taiba will get the nod.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

I thought Forbidden Kingdom ran very well.

Not sure Eclipse voters take field strength into account that much.

Three Grade 1's vs one for Epicenter makes me think Taiba will get the nod.

You should consider field strength when voting if you take your job seriously.

Epicenter's Travers was the best route run by a 3-year-old in '22

I think Taiba will win as well.

If you are using 106 for Taiba, Forbidden Kingdom did run well. I think FK ran his regular 96/7 and hasn't improved. Taiba hasn't sprinted since his mdn race. I don't think he ran his best sprint fig ever, not when meh fillies ran .24 slower an hour earlier. I have no problem with 106. It is a complex number to come up with as it hard to play it straight vs. the Labrea

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by freddymo

You should consider field strength when voting if you take your job seriously.

Epicenter's Travers was the best route run by a 3-year-old in '22

I think Taiba will win as well.

If you are using 106 for Taiba, Forbidden Kingdom did run well. I think FK ran his regular 96/7 and hasn't improved. Taiba hasn't sprinted since his mdn race. I don't think he ran his best sprint fig ever, not when meh fillies ran .24 slower an hour earlier. I have no problem with 106. It is a complex number to come up with as it hard to play it straight vs. the Labrea

Given your thoughts on the Malibu vs. LaBrea issue, if you don't mind, can you share your opinion, if you have one, on the Golden Rod vs. Kentucky Jockey Club a few weeks ago? Hoosier Filly won the filly race and went 1.31 seconds faster than Instant Coffer in the male race. They were the same distance one race apart. Thanks in advance.

[blackthroatedwind]

Only on the internet could someone consider Freddy an expert of speed figure construction.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Only on the internet could someone consider Freddy an expert of speed figure construction.

I'd appreciate your opinion on it if you have one. Thank you.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Only on the internet could someone consider Freddy an expert of speed figure construction.

FTFY Freddy is an expert on Speed Figure Destruction

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Given your thoughts on the Malibu vs. LaBrea issue, if you don't mind, can you share your opinion, if you have one, on the Golden Rod vs. Kentucky Jockey Club a few weeks ago? Hoosier Filly won the filly race and went 1.31 seconds faster than Instant Coffer in the male race. They were the same distance, one race apart. Thanks in advance.

I read the book and have known people who make figures in some cases for 20-plus years. I have a functional understanding of the process mostly thru being around people that are experts. I never bash them, yet I find them interesting to discuss because on complex days, there is a bit of artistry in the methodology, and the artistry, and I use that word respectfully, is where the expertise lies, not in the simple math process.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by freddymo

I read the book and have known people who make figures in some cases for 20-plus years. I have a functional understanding of the process mostly thru being around people that are experts. I never bash them, yet I find them interesting to discuss because on complex days, there is a bit of artistry in the methodology, and the artistry, and I use that word respectfully, is where the expertise lies, not in the simple math process.

I find it interesting that he asks the same questions over and over again, for literally years on end. The numbers are different because that's what the figure maker decided to do. If you don't agree, try to take advantage of it at the windows. It's beyond ridiculous.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by freddymo

I read the book and have known people who make figures in some cases for 20-plus years. I have a functional understanding of the process mostly thru being around people that are experts. I never bash them, yet I find them interesting to discuss because on complex days, there is a bit of artistry in the methodology, and the artistry, and I use that word respectfully, is where the expertise lies, not in the simple math process.

Are you ok with that? I mean, I guess we have to be but does the artistry bother you at all? It sometimes feels to me more like manipulation. I get the whole idea behind projections and norms and what makes sense. But to me, the beauty of racing is that you never know what you may see or get from race to race. You may or may not know owner/trainer intentions for a horse in a given race. By that I mean, and this is admittedly an older concept than a current one given how horses are campaigned today, but I came up at a time when guys like Whittingham would use races instead of works to get their horses into the best shape to win their main targets. Preps were just that. So you'd see one of his horses show up and run and trying to assign a figure would be very difficult cause you couldn't just point to his norm and say what a figure should be. Or take a race like the Derby or the Belmont. How can we know what the norms are for the runners in those races when none of them have ever run under the race conditions?

When I look at a situation like the Golden Rod/KJC day, it frustrates me because, while I'm nowhere close to any expert, I have watched races for almost 40 years and I'd like to think that I've picked up some things even if by accident. She ran the faster race that day but without proof, they are telling me that the track changed and no, his race was faster. It just makes me wonder what the reasoning is. I guess in the end, it's just another way to try to take advantage of the other players if you feel like you have better information.