Derby Aftermath

[Kitan]

Now Baffert is blaming America's cancel culture

The way he's had his excuses and lawyers instantly prepared for this isn't fishy at all. I guess he's just had some practice for this moment over the course of his previous 30 (known) positive tests.

[knickslions2]

Originally Posted by Kitan

Now Baffert is blaming America's cancel culture

The way he's had his excuses and lawyers instantly prepared for this isn't fishy at all. I guess he's just had some practice for this moment over the course of his previous 30 (known) positive tests.

Ya he knows what happened. The levels were nearly same as gamines were. They obviously are using this within the 14 day window after a workout to help with inflammation. They probably thought it would be gone based on their experience using the drug.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Kitan

Now Baffert is blaming America's cancel culture

The way he's had his excuses and lawyers instantly prepared for this isn't fishy at all. I guess he's just had some practice for this moment over the course of his previous 30 (known) positive tests.

You mean the Groom pissing in the stall after taking cough syrup and the horse eating the hay are out the window?

[richard burch]

Originally Posted by Kitan

Now Baffert is blaming America's cancel culture

The way he's had his excuses and lawyers instantly prepared for this isn't fishy at all. I guess he's just had some practice for this moment over the course of his previous 30 (known) positive tests.

That is 30 POS+ over 40 years. Even if got away with 40 more that is still pretty light considering the sport we are discussing. However it is still totally unacceptable by a highly profiled trainer.

This report doesn't even scratch the surface of the problem but it is still ridiculously bad.
https://www.paulickreport.com/tag/trainer-suspensions/

[moses]

Obviously for bettors who wagered through the track or an ADW, the results are final. Vegas casinos took bets outside of the parimutuel pools though. I wonder if their payout rule is different than what tracks do in the case of a DQ after the fact. I’m guessing no...but there was also this dispute between them and Churchill. I wonder how much they’d lose if they did payout following a DQ and whether that would draw gamblers to wager outside of the parimutuel pools.

[ADJMK]

Every trainer uses therapeutic drugs as part of their training regime.
But obviously most don't push the envelope like Baffert. When is the last time you heard Shug, Mott or Chad getting a positive.
Even if Baffert is totally innocent here, he has used up any goodwill and nobody is going to believe him.

[moses]

Originally Posted by ADJMK

Every trainer uses therapeutic drugs as part of their training regime.
But obviously most don't push the envelope like Baffert. When is the last time you heard Shug, Mott or Chad getting a positive.
Even if Baffert is totally innocent here, he has used up any goodwill and nobody is going to believe him.

If I recall correctly, Shug had a positive test in like Ohio a year or two ago, served his suspension, and moved on. Other than that, I can’t recall a positive test from him any time recently.

[Kitan]

Originally Posted by richard burch

That is 30 POS+ over 40 years. Even if got away with 40 more that is still pretty light considering the sport we are discussing. However it is still totally unacceptable by a highly profiled trainer.

This report doesn't even scratch the surface of the problem but it is still ridiculously bad.
https://www.paulickreport.com/tag/trainer-suspensions/

Neglecting any others that were definitely missed, I don't think an average of a positive test every 16 months can be considered "light".

Would Irish racing let Aidan O'Brien get away with a positive test every 16 months for 40 years? No.
Would GB racing let Sir Michael Stoute get away with a positive test every 16 months for 40 years? No.
Would Australian racing let Gai Waterhouse get away with a positive test every 16 months for 40 years? No.

As ADJMK said, after 30+ positive tests, you lose the benefit of the doubt, even if completely innocent this time. Even if it was contamination from e.g. a groom, at the end of the day it is his racing stable and he is responsible for all contact made between workers and horses. It's not a one off "mistake".

[richard burch]

Originally Posted by Kitan

Neglecting any others that were definitely missed, I don't think an average of a positive test every 16 months can be considered "light".

Would Irish racing let Aidan O'Brien get away with a positive test every 16 months for 40 years? No.
Would GB racing let Sir Michael Stoute get away with a positive test every 16 months for 40 years? No.
Would Australian racing let Gai Waterhouse get away with a positive test every 16 months for 40 years? No.

As ADJMK said, after 30+ positive tests, you lose the benefit of the doubt, even if completely innocent this time. Even if it was contamination from e.g. a groom, at the end of the day it is his racing stable and he is responsible for all contact made between workers and horses. It's not a one off "mistake".

Well then that is a punishment problem within the sport itself in the U.S. If you let them off with a slap on the wrist they will keep doing it. 3 Strikes and ban them for life, fine with me.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by richard burch

Well then that is a punishment problem within the sport itself in the U.S. If you let them off with a slap on the wrist they will keep doing it. 3 Strikes and ban them for life, fine with me.

This is what I’ve been saying. People are up in arms about the cheaters and talking about integrity and all that but there is no real reason why people shouldn’t cheat.

[senator L]

What I noticed is no other trainers
are coming forward voicing their support
for Bob. That says a lot to me

[Dahoss]

I’ve given this some more thought and I’m trying to be as unbiased as possible here.

Let’s ignore the 7 horses dropping dead on Baffert with no explanation from late 2011 to early 2013. Not sure why to ignore it, but we will and just focus on the last few years.

In 2019, 17 months after he had won the SA Derby (and eventually the triple crown) it was revealed Justify had failed a drug test after the SA Derby. He tested positive for scopolamine, and it was blamed on naturally growing Jimsom weed the horse had probably consumed. The CHRB covered it up for nearly a year and a half, before dismissing the case.

In 2020, Gamine and Charlatan both tested positive for lidocaine after their respective races at Oaklawn. The positives were blamed on a patch Baffert assistant Jimmy Barnes was wearing.

Later in the year Gamine failed another post race test. This time in the Kentucky Oaks. It was revealed she tested positive for an overage of betamethasone. This time Baffert claimed the medication was given to Gamine at the proper time to allow for it to be gone from her system in time, but it still showed up.

In October, yet another Baffert runner, Merneith, was found to have failed a test in July, for dextrophan. This time Baffert blamed it on one of his grooms who had Covid, that was taking an the counter cough syrup.

Fast forward to now. Medina Spirit failed a post race test in the country’s marquee event, for the same substance Gamine was in the Oaks last year. Baffert has gone on multiple shows, had impromptu press conferences blaming everything from a groom pissing in the stall to cancel culture.

Let’s assume for a second that Baffert really is unlucky and all of these instances are not his fault. It doesn’t speak well for him as someone in charge of an operation. In fact, some might question how he is able to obtain such impressive results, since he seems to struggle with basics. At the end of the day the buck should stop with him. I get that he’s an easy going guy but at what point do you try and clean it up a little?

On the flip side, as the unofficial “face” of the sport of racing, Baffert has enjoyed almost universal media praise for decades now. He’s been able to use that praise for his benefit and his bank account has continued to grow based on it. He has a responsibility to be better. To not be sloppy with things like this.

Watching him yesterday was interesting because I think we got to see the real Baffert. Not the smooth, jovial Baffert he gives us during post draws and quick interviews before races. This was the woe is me Baffert. Baffert the victim. Baffert the guy that been enabled by racing boards, the media, racing jurisdictions, stewards, etc for far too long. In an instant all of the good faith he has built up is kind of gone because he tarnished the Derby.

I couldn’t help but think back to the raw footage trackside during the 2011 Santa Anita Handicap inquiry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRw8Lj2MGp4

It’s a fascinating look at Baffert at work and how some of his colleagues feel about him. Baffert even says to Mandella “you want to win it fair,” and Mandella doesn’t appear amused. You even get to see a tongue tied Baffert when he gets caught lying.

At the end of the day I suspect Baffert has had an edge for a long time. I can’t prove it, but where there is smoke there is fire. I don’t think these overages the last few years have anything to do with his edge. I think this is just sloppy work by Baffert and by those who he employs. I used to not understand why Baffert thinks he’s above the law, but it makes sense now. He hasn’t been properly punished for his transgressions. The multiple slaps on the wrist have not deterred anything.

Racing has a real issue to deal with. The race that even non racing fans know about has an integrity issue. This isn’t like the DQ two years ago...this is more. I won’t pretend to know what to do but without integrity we have nothing. The sad thing is all of this could have been avoided if the guy who likes to push the envelope just played by the same rules everyone else does. It’s not a coincidence Baffert has had a horse test over the limit in the Oaks and Derby in back to back years.

Baffert has no one to blame but himself.

[robfla]

Now blaming it on Otomax.

https://twitter.com/KySportsRadio/st...851397/photo/1

[jms62]

A simple

"We used a legal medication and miscalculated how long it took to clear his body, may be due to having to factor in Non use of Lasix, we need to figure this out and insure it doesn't happen again"

But no.. He goes on Fox and Panders to their audience with the "Cancel Culture" nonsense.

[moses]

Originally Posted by robfla

Now blaming it on Otomax.

https://twitter.com/KySportsRadio/st...851397/photo/1

This story sounds familiar.

https://archive.triblive.com/news/bo...steroid-cream/

[richard burch]

Originally Posted by robfla

Now blaming it on Otomax.

https://twitter.com/KySportsRadio/st...851397/photo/1

A very convenient alibi. Lets say we rubbed it on him but didn't know what was in it so we can cover up the injections we give him with the same drug.

That is like saying all that THC in my system came from the hemp oil I rub on my ass that I got at CVS.

[ADJMK]

So I wake up this morning and the first thing I heard on the oldies station (old thats me) on the radio is the DJ's discussing the positive. Probably the first time horse racing is discussed on the station. One guy says he's done some research and found out how many positives Baffert has had in the past few years and questions how is he still allowed to train.
So the guy who is the face of the sport to the non-racing public, innocent or not has given racing another blackeye, and basically ruined the Triple Crown season. You think the regular media Preakness coverage is not going to be all about Baffert?

[herkhorse]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I’ve given this some more thought and I’m trying to be as unbiased as possible here.

Let’s ignore the 7 horses dropping dead on Baffert with no explanation from late 2011 to early 2013. Not sure why to ignore it, but we will and just focus on the last few years.

In 2019, 17 months after he had won the SA Derby (and eventually the triple crown) it was revealed Justify had failed a drug test after the SA Derby. He tested positive for scopolamine, and it was blamed on naturally growing Jimsom weed the horse had probably consumed. The CHRB covered it up for nearly a year and a half, before dismissing the case.

In 2020, Gamine and Charlatan both tested positive for lidocaine after their respective races at Oaklawn. The positives were blamed on a patch Baffert assistant Jimmy Barnes was wearing.

Later in the year Gamine failed another post race test. This time in the Kentucky Oaks. It was revealed she tested positive for an overage of betamethasone. This time Baffert claimed the medication was given to Gamine at the proper time to allow for it to be gone from her system in time, but it still showed up.

In October, yet another Baffert runner, Merneith, was found to have failed a test in July, for dextrophan. This time Baffert blamed it on one of his grooms who had Covid, that was taking an the counter cough syrup.

Fast forward to now. Medina Spirit failed a post race test in the country’s marquee event, for the same substance Gamine was in the Oaks last year. Baffert has gone on multiple shows, had impromptu press conferences blaming everything from a groom pissing in the stall to cancel culture.

Let’s assume for a second that Baffert really is unlucky and all of these instances are not his fault. It doesn’t speak well for him as someone in charge of an operation. In fact, some might question how he is able to obtain such impressive results, since he seems to struggle with basics. At the end of the day the buck should stop with him. I get that he’s an easy going guy but at what point do you try and clean it up a little?

On the flip side, as the unofficial “face” of the sport of racing, Baffert has enjoyed almost universal media praise for decades now. He’s been able to use that praise for his benefit and his bank account has continued to grow based on it. He has a responsibility to be better. To not be sloppy with things like this.

Watching him yesterday was interesting because I think we got to see the real Baffert. Not the smooth, jovial Baffert he gives us during post draws and quick interviews before races. This was the woe is me Baffert. Baffert the victim. Baffert the guy that been enabled by racing boards, the media, racing jurisdictions, stewards, etc for far too long. In an instant all of the good faith he has built up is kind of gone because he tarnished the Derby.

I couldn’t help but think back to the raw footage trackside during the 2011 Santa Anita Handicap inquiry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRw8Lj2MGp4

It’s a fascinating look at Baffert at work and how some of his colleagues feel about him. Baffert even says to Mandella “you want to win it fair,” and Mandella doesn’t appear amused. You even get to see a tongue tied Baffert when he gets caught lying.

At the end of the day I suspect Baffert has had an edge for a long time. I can’t prove it, but where there is smoke there is fire. I don’t think these overages the last few years have anything to do with his edge. I think this is just sloppy work by Baffert and by those who he employs. I used to not understand why Baffert thinks he’s above the law, but it makes sense now. He hasn’t been properly punished for his transgressions. The multiple slaps on the wrist have not deterred anything.

Racing has a real issue to deal with. The race that even non racing fans know about has an integrity issue. This isn’t like the DQ two years ago...this is more. I won’t pretend to know what to do but without integrity we have nothing. The sad thing is all of this could have been avoided if the guy who likes to push the envelope just played by the same rules everyone else does. It’s not a coincidence Baffert has had a horse test over the limit in the Oaks and Derby in back to back years.

Baffert has no one to blame but himself.

Good post. The day of the 2011 Santa Anita handicap was the day my disdain of Baffert began.

[Left Bank]

Originally Posted by senator L

What I noticed is no other trainers
are coming forward voicing their support
for Bob. That says a lot to me

BOOM!!!!

https://www.horseracingnation.com/ne...pirit_case_123