2 year old campaign poll!!!!

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by smartyalex

TOUCHE!!!! Also, I enjoyed KG's quote "So many people in this industry are copycats and want to do what they've seen recently be successful". Well, there is a key word in that quote that needs some explanation to KG.......SUCCESS!!!!!!

um yeah, since when was that a bad word?

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

um yeah, since when was that a bad word?

Nothing wrong with being successful. Just that there are more ways to be successful than what are currently used. At least I think so. I mentioned Drysdale's route with Prized. What about what Dickinson did with Da Hoss? Matz chosing his route with Barbaro even though he was told at every turn that no horse could win off a five-week layoff? What I'm saying is that there are ways of doing things that may work that are a little unconventional and if more trainers were willing to try them (and had owners willing to allow them the opportunity to try), we might see some things that would work and at the same time might be good for the sport. Or maybe they won't work. At no point have I guaranteed that my ideas would work, only that I'd try them and see. What I do know is that I am totally disgusted with what is going on nowdays. Sure, it's what everyone does. But then come July, it seems like 70% of the top horses in the group are on the sidelines. How many top 3yo's do we see each year continue on to their 4yo season? Perhaps if they weren't pushed so hard so early, they might have a little left for later. Or we can just stay with the status quo where every year, we are left with 4-5 horse fields in all of the best 3yo races in the second half of the season and most of those are newcomers cause so many of the best are on the sidelines. Go back to only 2000 and think about it. None of the following TC race winners made it through the end of the year:

Red Bullet-2000
Monarchos-2001
Point Given-2001
Sarava-2002
Empire Maker-2003
Smarty Jones-2004
Giacomo-2005
Afleet Alex-2005
Barbaro-2006
Jazil-2006

I'm not sure but I think Commendable in 2000 would be in that group too. That means out of 16 horses that have won TC races in this decade, at least 10 and maybe 11 haven't finished their 3yo season. U could take it back further and add Charismatic, Real Quiet, and Silver Charm, all of whom went to the sidelines following the Belmont. U could throw in horses like Lion Heart, The Cliff's Edge, Bellamy Road, Closing Argument, Tapit, and Came Home. All were prominent in the TC races or on the Derby prep trail and all had their seasons ended prematurely. I don't like that. I also don't think it's coincidence. I think that these horses are being pushed too hard too early without the proper training. I'm trying to find a better way. Again, not saying my ideas would work but if the current tried and successful routes are going to get me early success but then my season will be done before the summer is over, thanks but no thanks.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I think what you are kind of missing here is that most trainers do what they feel is right for their horse, and they know these horses better than anyone else. You have mentioned Prized. While I guess it was unconventional for him to go in the Turf, he had very solid turf breeding, and Drysdale must've thought could win, and who could argue with him? Da Hoss had physical problems almost from day one, as did another horse he resurected A Huevo. He gave them the time they needed, and they performed well. Matz thought it was best for Barbaro to go into the Derby fresh, and he was right, probably because he knew his horse.
Personally I think the breed in general is declining. Horses can't run as frequent as they used to. now there are exceptions to that, but for the most part they can't. Why that is, I don't know. Could it be they are asked to run too fast too early, maybe. But on one hand you want horses to not be hard pressed early, but you want them to run 6-8 times as a juvenile. You don't see many horses running that much, that early, and then around late in their 3 year old year. And of course part of it is the breeding game. Some, not all, some horses are retired prematurely because of the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

I don't want them hard presed running 8-9f as 2yo's but I do think that a good number of races at distances no further than 6f would be ok. I think that would help them get the racing experience and the foundation they need to be able to withstand the rigors of racing for a long period of time. I don't think it makes any sense to baby a horse through his 2yo season by running two or three times and then ask them to be ready for the TC trail and the TC races. I think u are asking for trouble. U say that horses can't run as frequent as they used to but I don't believe that's true. I think they just don't get the chance to run as often anymore. Maybe that's because more trainers/owners are afraid of losing races and diminishing their horses value so they limit the number of races in order to try to have them at peak form for each start. It used to be where horses would race themselves into form and losses on a record didn't hurt like they do now. U see it with a gelding like Perfect Drift. Every year, they start him off in those grass races. They don't care if he loses since it won't hurt his stud value anyway. Their goal is to use those races to get him into shape for his main goal, which is usually the Foster Hcp.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

While I don't disagree with some of what you are saying, especially how horses race themselves into shape. You kind of contradict your initial post where you said trainers should be able to simulate racing by training.

I don't mean exactly. There is no substitute for an actual race. I mean that u can find out things like how they react to surfaces or sitting behind horses or how far they might want to run. I should have said u can simulate some race conditions.