2 year old campaign poll!!!!

smartyalex · #1 12-09-2006, 09:56 PM

If you had a nice two year old.......at what track would you base at and name your Derby prep races!

dellinger63 · #2 12-09-2006, 10:02 PM

Dubai... Private/Private/Jim Dandy - Derby

Alt; Private/Private/ Arkansas Derby

#3 12-09-2006, 10:02 PM

I think i would use the Barbaro/Smarty Jones style and stay at home till i knew.

Which for me means go Remington Park, Oklahoma City and after sweeting some stakes races i would go to Oaklawn and work the way up the latter.

The timing of remington ending and oaklawn opening is perfect for a minor rest and not far from home doesn't hurt either.

Danzig · #4 12-09-2006, 10:02 PM

oaklawn....close to home.

The Bid · #5 12-09-2006, 10:02 PM

I would probably go to Oaklawn

Danzig · #6 12-09-2006, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bid

I would probably go to Oaklawn

see, great minds think alike.

repent · #7 12-09-2006, 10:27 PM

well the purse money at Oak is tough to turn down.

but that aside,
Id prep at Fairgrounds

Lecomte, Risen Star, La Derby.

it leaves enough time to get another prep in(after the LA Derby) if the horse needs it, but I would not hesitate to go straight into the Derby if the horse is doing well and does not need another race.

Repent

Scav · #8 12-09-2006, 11:14 PM

I would stable at Palm Meadows and race at Tampa's earlier 3 year old races, and then the Florida Derby, and then to the KY Derby......

it really all depends on the horse though, if the horse has some physical aliments, you run as least as possible, but if he needs to run to get into shape, then you run more

King Glorious · #9 12-10-2006, 02:01 AM

Santa Anita.

As a 2yo, I would not run him beyond 6f at all but I'd run him often, maybe 6-8 times.

As a 3yo, assuming he progressed with each start and showed me enough to continue on with him, I'd go (according to the 2006 racing dates):

San Miguel-6f Jan 8 at Santa Anita
San Vicente-7f Feb 12 at Santa Anita
Swale-7f Mar 4 at Gulfstream
Private Terms-8f Mar 25 at Laurel
Derby Trial-8f Apr 29 at Churchill

In my opinion, five races is enough to get a horse plenty fit for the Derby. Also, I'm not a big believer in a horse having to go 9f first to see if he can go 10f. If he can't show me enough in two tries at 8f to convince me that he can go further, I need to back up at that point. I personally feel that any trainer worth his weight in salt should be able to tell if a horse can go 10f off of two 8f races. A lot of people these days feel that it's not good to have a horse run that close to another race but it seemed to do ok for Don't Get Mad a couple of years ago when he ended up fourth in the Derby after running in the Derby trial. It also worked well for plenty of horses back in the day and I don't know of any reason why it couldn't still work. I think it's good to get in a good 8f work prior to a race and with the horse having been off for a month prior to that, it would be a good spot to take some of the edge off yet keep him sharp while getting paid for it should he finish in the money.

Samarta · #10 12-10-2006, 08:35 AM

Too many intangibles that can change the course. Once you determine that you have a horse that has the potential to be in the mix come May, progression is the one thing that is critical. I don't think shipping a horse all over the country is the way to go. Look at 2 out of the last 3 years. Smarty and Barbaro campaigned at basically 2 tracks. The trainers picked their spots early on and stuck with the plan and as far as getting to the Derby with a chance, well we all know how it worked out for both. It goes in cycles I suppose. Right now, I guess Oaklawn is the hotbed. It looks like they are going to be loaded again down there. So many tracks and so many races that I really don't think it matters much as to which track.Barring any setbacks like an injury...pick a course, stick to the plan, and let the chips fall where they may. If it doesn't work out it the odds caught up with ya....

Kasept · #11 12-10-2006, 08:47 AM

The classic approach...

3 starts at 2.. (6f, 6-7f, 1m-8.5f..) a graded stake appearance in here would be OK...

Jan./Feb. Holy Bull/Aventura (something like that at GP)

Mar. Fountain of Youth

Apr. Wood

May Derby

7th career start in the Derby has been a magical program.. Even if you go a ways back...

SniperSB23 · #12 12-10-2006, 10:37 AM

http://www.secretariat.com/past_performance.htm

King Glorious · #13 12-10-2006, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Interesting to say the least. I'm not knocking it, but don't you think a two turn race at some point before the Derby might be beneficial? As for the original question, I'd go with an allowance race at Gulfstream early February going either 7F or a mile. Over to tampa for the Tampa Bay Derby, and back up home to NY for the Wood.

To be honest, I didn't know if the mile race at Laurel would be two-turns or not. But, IMO, a trainer can use workouts to find that out. It's not too difficult to simulate race conditions in a workout and it's not hard at all to get a horse to work two-turns. My main goal would be not to get the horse too drained before the big day. I've long disagreed with the theory that a horse has to run at 9f before he can run at 10f. I don't think the Florida Derby distance helped Barbaro win. I don't think the Arkansas Derby distance helped Smarty win. I think either would have won even if their preps had been 8-8.5f. I'm a big believer in the fact that either a horse can do something or they can't.

If I did want to see an actual race at two-turns though, I'd substitute the Lexington for the Derby Trial.

Cannon Shell · #14 12-10-2006, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

To be honest, I didn't know if the mile race at Laurel would be two-turns or not. But, IMO, a trainer can use workouts to find that out. It's not too difficult to simulate race conditions in a workout and it's not hard at all to get a horse to work two-turns. My main goal would be not to get the horse too drained before the big day. I've long disagreed with the theory that a horse has to run at 9f before he can run at 10f. I don't think the Florida Derby distance helped Barbaro win. I don't think the Arkansas Derby distance helped Smarty win. I think either would have won even if their preps had been 8-8.5f. I'm a big believer in the fact that either a horse can do something or they can't.

If I did want to see an actual race at two-turns though, I'd substitute the Lexington for the Derby Trial.

You really have no comprehension of training thoroughbred horses.

King Glorious · #15 12-10-2006, 01:22 PM

I guess that's not too surprising since I'm not a trainer. By the way, can u tell me which Derby horses u have trained so I can see the type of schedule u have used?

ArlJim78 · #16 12-10-2006, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

To be honest, I didn't know if the mile race at Laurel would be two-turns or not. But, IMO, a trainer can use workouts to find that out. It's not too difficult to simulate race conditions in a workout and it's not hard at all to get a horse to work two-turns. My main goal would be not to get the horse too drained before the big day. I've long disagreed with the theory that a horse has to run at 9f before he can run at 10f. I don't think the Florida Derby distance helped Barbaro win. I don't think the Arkansas Derby distance helped Smarty win. I think either would have won even if their preps had been 8-8.5f. I'm a big believer in the fact that either a horse can do something or they can't.

If I did want to see an actual race at two-turns though, I'd substitute the Lexington for the Derby Trial.

most of your theories i don't think hold up very well historically speaking.
Maybe this is not surprising, but i actually think you're wrong on everything you said here.

A sports analogy:
No sports team can be prepared to win the championship off of light practices.

ArlJim78 · #17 12-10-2006, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You really have no comprehension of training thoroughbred horses.

You have the knowledge to be able to say that.

Even though i know what you said is true, i had to say it another way.

If Mr Glorious were to use this type of training regimen for his derby prospects they would be lucky to finish the race.

Danzig · #18 12-10-2006, 01:29 PM

no way of knowing what barbaro and smarty would have done had they not run at 9 f, since they did. i wouldn't go out on a limb and say they'd have done the same with a different prep schedule. they did what they did the way they did it.

thing is, you have to tailor the schedule to the horse. a lot of horses tried to get into the derby with a light schedule, and no starts five weeks out, and it didn't work for them. just because it worked for barbaro doesn't mean it would work for others. it did go a long way in revealing just how good barbaro was. he did something many others tried and failed to do, and in convincing fashion.

i like the oaklawn schedule, the spacing, the distances. i think it would fit a lot of horses, unlike some of the preps in florida these days. also would rather go to the ark derby than the bluegrass or the florida derbies. also, no need to ship to find a better distance, and it's closer to churchill.

#19 12-10-2006, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I guess that's not too surprising since I'm not a trainer. By the way, can u tell me which Derby horses u have trained so I can see the type of schedule u have used?

Thats a cute answer, really cute.
Could you tell US which horse in Derby history even won the ****ing race without a two turn prep?
This is incredulous.

King Glorious · #20 12-10-2006, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

most of your theories i don't think hold up very well historically speaking.
Maybe this is not surprising, but i actually think you're wrong on everything you said here.

A sports analogy:
No sports team can be prepared to win the championship off of light practices.

In team sports, u are competing against other players that are making moves to counter yours so it's important to get in some actual competition to test your plays and moves against live competition. In racing, that's not the case. It's basically a case of how fast can u run and how far? U can learn a lot about your horse in tandem workouts.

People are so enamored by the idea that u have to run 9f first. Why? So u can find out one race sooner if your horse can go 10f or not? U still don't know for sure. A 9f race is still not a 10f race.

Maybe I'm wrong though. That is always possible.