Is American Pharoah Baffert's best horse?

[ghartman02]

Silver Charm was a champion, he won The Derby and Preakness and then Dubai, just short in the Classic and Belmont. Real Quiet, a nose shy of a Triple Crown, Ok at 4 but we'll never know. Point Given was a beast. I'll never understand what happened Derby Day, but The Preakness, Belmont, and Travers were great. It's still incomplete on American Pharoah, but at this juncture, I think he's not only Bob's best, but definitely in the elite zone. Horses come at him in every race and he just puts it in another gear. Secretariat followed up the Triple Crown with great wins especially in the Marlboro, and Man o War or Lexington (always forget which one). Neither Slew nor Affirmed won in their Triple Crown won what I would term the Grand Slam of it's day, The Jockey Club Gold Cup (at 1 1/2 Miles). So if AP would win the BC Classic, we're in new territory!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by ghartman02

Silver Charm was a champion, he won The Derby and Preakness and then Dubai, just short in the Classic and Belmont. Real Quiet, a nose shy of a Triple Crown, Ok at 4 but we'll never know. Point Given was a beast. I'll never understand what happened Derby Day, but The Preakness, Belmont, and Travers were great. It's still incomplete on American Pharoah, but at this juncture, I think he's not only Bob's best, but definitely in the elite zone. Horses come at him in every race and he just puts it in another gear. Secretariat followed up the Triple Crown with great wins especially in the Marlboro, and Man o War or Lexington (always forget which one). Neither Slew nor Affirmed won in their Triple Crown won what I would term the Grand Slam of it's day, The Jockey Club Gold Cup (at 1 1/2 Miles). So if AP would win the BC Classic, we're in new territory!

it was the man o war.

and one of slew's best races ever was the jockey club. losing a nose after how he ran early...it was amazing to see.

[somerfrost]

Well, it's strictly a matter of opinion but based on the importance I attach to winning the Triple Crown, I have to place AP at the top of the list.

[ghartman02]

Slew's Jockey Club was amazing. I said that to a friend when Zenyatta came up short in the Breeders Cup Classic, he said, well she wasn't as good, and I said that made me a fan. It looked like in 1978 Exceller would take off, but Slew wouldn't quit which placed him in my mind as one of the greats.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by ghartman02

Slew's Jockey Club was amazing. I said that to a friend when Zenyatta came up short in the Breeders Cup Classic, he said, well she wasn't as good, and I said that made me a fan. It looked like in 1978 Exceller would take off, but Slew wouldn't quit which placed him in my mind as one of the greats.

what did beyer say, something like exceller won but slew was the hero?

it was an amazing race from SS.

[Alabama Stakes]

Originally Posted by ghartman02

Silver Charm was a champion, he won The Derby and Preakness and then Dubai, just short in the Classic and Belmont. Real Quiet, a nose shy of a Triple Crown, Ok at 4 but we'll never know. Point Given was a beast. I'll never understand what happened Derby Day, but The Preakness, Belmont, and Travers were great. It's still incomplete on American Pharoah, but at this juncture, I think he's not only Bob's best, but definitely in the elite zone. Horses come at him in every race and he just puts it in another gear. Secretariat followed up the Triple Crown with great wins especially in the Marlboro, and Man o War or Lexington (always forget which one). Neither Slew nor Affirmed won in their Triple Crown won what I would term the Grand Slam of it's day, The Jockey Club Gold Cup (at 1 1/2 Miles). So if AP would win the BC Classic, we're in new territory!

Gary Stevens is what happened to Point Given in the Derby....that's how to rush him up into suicidal fractions there Gary. He probaly felt like punching himself in the face after that ride.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

Gary Stevens is what happened to Point Given in the Derby....that's how to rush him up into suicidal fractions there Gary. He probaly felt like punching himself in the face after that ride.

The horse didn't have it that day. It is true that it was a suicidal pace. They went the half in :44 4/5. Point Given was laying 6th and he was about 6 lengths behind or so. Was this closer than he should have been? Yes, it was. He should have probably been laying more like 12-14 lengths back. He ended up getting beat by about 13 lengths. Congaree was laying 4th and was much closer to the pace than Point Given. Congaree ended up running 2nd and he beat PG by about 8 lengths.

I don't know how you could possible say PG was best that day. If he ended up losing the race by only 3-4 lengths, then you could make a good argument that he might have been best that day. But when a horse loses by 13 lengths and is losing ground to horses who were in front of him and getting passed by horses that were behind him, I don't know how you can think that the ride cost him the race.

[Alabama Stakes]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

The horse didn't have it that day. It is true that it was a suicidal pace. They went the half in :44 4/5. Point Given was laying 6th and he was about 6 lengths behind or so. Was this closer than he should have been? Yes, it was. He should have probably been laying more like 12-14 lengths back. He ended up getting beat by about 13 lengths. Congaree was laying 4th and was much closer to the pace than Point Given. Congaree ended up running 2nd and he beat PG by about 8 lengths.

I don't know how you could possible say PG was best that day. If he ended up losing the race by only 3-4 lengths, then you could make a good argument that he might have been best that day. But when a horse loses by 13 lengths and is losing ground to horses who were in front of him and getting passed by horses that were behind him, I don't know how you can think that the ride cost him the race.

How far he got beat is not relevant. He blew it with that ridiculous middle move into scorching 6 furlongs.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

How far he got beat is not relevant. He blew it with that ridiculous middle move into scorching 6 furlongs.

Ok, if you say so. I can guarantee you that Baffert doesn't think that ride cost him the race.

A good example of a horse whose move was totally mistimed was Normandy Invasion in 2013. A move like that can cost a horse 2-3 lengths. It's not going to cost him 12 or 13 lengths. I would say the same for Point Given. If you think that type of ride can cost a horse 13 lengths, then you must have 10,000 horses on your watch list. There are tons of horses who get beat by 15 lengths every day who didn't get perfect rides. That doesn't mean they should have won. I think PG's sore hoof had a lot more to do with his poor performance than the ride. I think that hoof was actually still probably bothering him at least a little bit in the Preakness. He was on his wrong lead all the way down the stretch in the Preakness until about 40 yards from the wire.

[alysheba4]

Seems that BB thinks AP is best.