American Pharoah...

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by freddymo

First few starts are not necessarily a horses true indication of style and ability right?

I doubt BTW thinks or Nick think he is a stone cold closer I believe what both think are that he he is best suited to make one well timed run. I am not of opinion BTW or Nick think the colt is a Zenyatta type last to first colt.

Correct, I highly discount the first few races. I mention it only to further demonstrate that the horse does not want to be far back off the lead.

And yeah, I realize the fan club is not making him out to be a Zenyatta type of closer. I keep bringing that up because they said he was taken out of his style, in various races.

The reality is quite different from their claims though. He pretty much runs the same style every time.

I still see no evidence that those guys are right.

[ateamstupid]

This semantics argument about his running style is just one big diversion from the indefensibly asinine opinion that arguably the fastest horse in the crop on paper is best suited to NY-bred races.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

This semantics argument about his running style is just one big diversion from the indefensibly asinine opinion that arguably the fastest horse in the crop on paper is best suited to NY-bred races.

This.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

This semantics argument about his running style is just one big diversion from the indefensibly asinine opinion that arguably the fastest horse in the crop on paper is best suited to NY-bred races.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

This is nonsense and I refuse to admit that I might possibly be wrong.

FTFY.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

This semantics argument about his running style is just one big diversion from the indefensibly asinine opinion that arguably the fastest horse in the crop on paper is best suited to NY-bred races.

No, it isn't. The NY bred comment was, I thought, an obviously little sarcastic poke at his fan boys. While I do feel he'd make quick work in NY Bred races, I think he's more than capable of showing well in races like the King's Bishop.

And there is no argument at all about him being the fastest horse in the crop, on paper.

That comment or belief is what is comically an indefensible and asinine opinion.

My argument about his running style was a direct response to those that over evaluate his performance in the Champagne and BCJ.

Nice try though.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Correct, I highly discount the first few races. I mention it only to further demonstrate that the horse does not want to be far back off the lead.

And yeah, I realize the fan club is not making him out to be a Zenyatta type of closer. I keep bringing that up because they said he was taken out of his style, in various races.

The reality is quite different from their claims though. He pretty much runs the same style every time.

I still see no evidence that those guys are right.

I dont want to speak for BTW but he is typically right not always but more often then not he is on the money. Upstart was dreadful in Derby, I used him because of what he had done on the track which was about as much as any other in field. He was 30/1 he should have been 15/1 and I wonder if world was out he was off form or some other backstretch nonsense?

The derby is a hard race to take much away from this year. CJ thinks pace was solid other respectable outlets think it was less then stellar? I use CJ to guide me on this stuff because he too is more right then wrong. Doesnt mean he is right this time but I believe he is. Upstart didnt run so trying to reverse engineer a decent opinion on what he wants to ultimately do after that performance is a waste.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by freddymo

I dont want to speak for BTW but he is typically right not always but more often then not he is on the money. Upstart was dreadful in Derby, I used him because of what he had done on the track which was about as much as any other in field. He was 30/1 he should have been 15/1 and I wonder if world was out he was off form or some other backstretch nonsense?

The derby is a hard race to take much away from this year. CJ thinks pace was solid other respectable outlets think it was less then stellar? I use CJ to guide me on this stuff because he too is more right then wrong. Doesnt mean he is right this time but I believe he is. Upstart didnt run so trying to reverse engineer a decent opinion on what he wants to ultimately do after that performance is a waste.

My take on Upstarts Derby performance is the only one that it can be.

It's a throwout.

CJ is exactly right about the pace. Since when is 47.1 a slow pace for 10F for early season three year olds that have never gone that far?

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by freddymo

I dont want to speak for BTW but he is typically right not always but more often then not he is on the money. Upstart was dreadful in Derby, I used him because of what he had done on the track which was about as much as any other in field. He was 30/1 he should have been 15/1 and I wonder if world was out he was off form or some other backstretch nonsense?

Upstart went off at 15-1 in the Derby. He actually took a ton of late money to drop from the 19-1 he was holding at.