American Pharoah...

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

True, he didn't look as good as the hype portrayed him to be, but to say he was completely exposed is premature.

Hell, I didn't think he was going to win going down the backside.

I didn't say the horse was completely exposed. I said the over the top hype was completely exposed.

I have never suggested American Pharoah wasn't a good horse. I said that the hype he was generating was not backed up by his on-track performance. The response I usually got was some BS about him displaying mythical qualities in the morning. This was clearly not backed up by his performance in the Derby....which was good, but hardly in the pantheon of great Derby performances.

As far as what he looked like down the backstretch....you are in the minority. Had he been the horse some experts wanted us to believe, he would have won by more, without being hit 32 times.

Quite a few horses, good horses, have followed up Derby wins with far more decisive Preakness performances. It surely possible that American Pharoah could be one of those. We'll see.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I didn't say the horse was completely exposed. I said the over the top hype was completely exposed.

I have never suggested American Pharoah wasn't a good horse. I said that the hype he was generating was not backed up by his on-track performance. The response I usually got was some BS about him displaying mythical qualities in the morning. This was clearly not backed up by his performance in the Derby....which was good, but hardly in the pantheon of great Derby performances.

As far as what he looked like down the backstretch....you are in the minority. Had he been the horse some experts wanted us to believe, he would have won by more, without being hit 32 times.

Quite a few horses, good horses, have followed up Derby wins with far more decisive Preakness performances. It surely possible that American Pharoah could be one of those. We'll see.

I just didn't think he was moving as well as he usually does (down the backstretch).

And I am in the minority apparently, and that is often a good thing. I was adamant with DrugS, for instance, that Big Brown wouldn't win the Belmont, and in fact, should be kept out of the race.

The Pharoah is a real difficult horse to get a read on. There are things about him that are awesome, but others that are equally worrying.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

I just didn't think he was moving as well as he usually does (down the backstretch).

And I am in the minority apparently, and that is often a good thing. I was adamant with DrugS, for instance, that Big Brown wouldn't win the Belmont, and in fact, should be kept out of the race.

The Pharoah is a real difficult horse to get a read on. There are things about him that are awesome, but others that are equally worrying.

I honestly thought that he was in trouble with a half mile to go. Maybe I just bought into the myth and figured he'd be moving in hand until the top of the lane.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

I honestly thought that he was in trouble with a half mile to go. Maybe I just bought into the myth and figured he'd be moving in hand until the top of the lane.

But Matt, how could you conclude that after The Don, Don Guido or DG, whichever your prefer, says he hardly broke a sweat on Saturday?

[knickslions2]

Originally Posted by pointman

But Matt, how could you conclude that after The Don, Don Guido or DG, whichever your prefer, says he hardly broke a sweat on Saturday?

Well Guido did win a million dollars on that race so I trust him.

[Indian Charlie]

Yeah, I don't really get the not breaking a sweat thing.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by pointman

But Matt, how could you conclude that after The Don, Don Guido or DG, whichever your prefer, says he hardly broke a sweat on Saturday?

I must have missed that gem. Things haven't changed around here

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

I just didn't think he was moving as well as he usually does (down the backstretch).

I would presume American Pharaoh would be under at least a little pressure to keep pace with the likes of Dortmund and Firing Line, who picked it up a bit from the 1/2 mile fraction to the 3/4 fraction.

Definitely not the same as chasing Bridget's Big Luvy anyways.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

I would presume American Pharaoh would be under at least a little pressure to keep pace with the likes of Dortmund and Firing Line, who picked it up a bit from the 1/2 mile fraction to the 3/4 fraction.

Definitely not the same as chasing Bridget's Big Luvy anyways.

Perhaps that's it, but maybe not. I was thinking he was having an off day, but I have no way of knowing that.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

I was thinking he was having an off day, but I have no way of knowing that.

Seeing that American Pharaoh won, clearly he didn't have an off day.

Upstart probably had an off day though.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Seeing that American Pharaoh won, clearly he didn't have an off day.

Upstart probably had an off day though.

I agree, it doesn't seem likely, hence my ambiguity regarding this race.

It is possible though for a horse to have an off day and win though.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

It is possible though for a horse to have an off day and win though.

Yeah, especially in the Kentucky Derby.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I didn't say the horse was completely exposed. I said the over the top hype was completely exposed.

I have never suggested American Pharoah wasn't a good horse. I said that the hype he was generating was not backed up by his on-track performance. The response I usually got was some BS about him displaying mythical qualities in the morning. This was clearly not backed up by his performance in the Derby....which was good, but hardly in the pantheon of great Derby performances.

As far as what he looked like down the backstretch....you are in the minority. Had he been the horse some experts wanted us to believe, he would have won by more, without being hit 32 times.

Quite a few horses, good horses, have followed up Derby wins with far more decisive Preakness performances. It surely possible that American Pharoah could be one of those. We'll see.

You liking those odds in your last paragraph at say 3/5?