5/2 (CD): 141st Kentucky Derby (G1); 6 Graded Stakes Undercard

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Agree with all of these points. I think Materiality has nothing but improvement ahead. I was shocked that Dortmund made the lead, and that the pace was as pedestrian as it was. He could not have and a better trip, relative to the amount of ground loss American Pharaoh needed to overcome, and may be a nice miler.

American Pharaoh may be even better in Baltimore. I'd love to see the Trackus as he clearly ran further than anyone else, and while maybe not as physically impressive in victory, the stats will bear out how much extra work he had to do.

Frosted closing like a shot into an non-existent pace was visually, the most impressive performance outside of AP's victory. Danzig Moon stalking and staying on was great to see. He just gets better with every race.

Pace was NOT slow. Frosted closed into a 26 final quarter and didnt get past Danzig Moon. I dont get the Frosted love. Dortmund was projected to be on pace by TimeForm it was hardily a surprise. TimeForm has the race faster then Beyer relatively speaking to their scales. AP traveled 29 feet more then Firing Line and I think 69 more then Dortmund.

I figure Dortmund to Haskel AP to Travers.

[GenuineRisk]

Dead last Upstart is okay, just wasn't that into it.

http://live.drf.com/nuggets/14546

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Dead last Upstart is okay, just wasn't that into it.

http://live.drf.com/nuggets/14546

He'd do real well in Ny bred races.

[largo1]

Based on what I read on here I really wanted to bet a little on Tepin but I only had 90 cents in my TVG account. (yes, you read that right). Wish I would have taken the time to add a little cash to the acct and bet her to win. Boo for me.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

He'd do real well in Ny bred races.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

He's likely the most overrated horse in the crop. And that uncertainty I have about it being likely is only because Winstar keeps proving me wrong with their ability to select racehorses and stallion prospects.

Those guys are magical.

Keep rolling them eyes dude.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

He's likely the most overrated horse in the crop. And that uncertainty I have about it being likely is only because Winstar keeps proving me wrong with their ability to select racehorses and stallion prospects.

Those guys are magical.

Keep rolling them eyes dude.

You have always had issues with making over the top statements and asserting them as if they are fact. But this is at a new level. Upstart, who until Saturday had been out of the exacta exactly once in 6 starts, had just earned the 2nd highest speed figure in the field according to Beyer, and the highest Thoro-graph number, was "likely the most overrated horse in the crop."

Think about hitting the brakes. I know you're thumping your chest about American Pharoah, but enough's enough.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

You have always had issues with making over the top statements and asserting them as if they are fact. But this is at a new level. Upstart, who until Saturday had been out of the exacta exactly once in 6 starts, had just earned the 2nd highest speed figure in the field according to Beyer, and the highest Thoro-graph number, was "likely the most overrated horse in the crop."

Think about hitting the brakes. I know you're thumping your chest about American Pharoah, but enough's enough.

If you consider posting an opinion as having issues, then I have those issues.

The rest of your post is ridiculous.

I never said Upstart is a bad horse, just that people are overrating the horse. Yes, he usually fires, and yes, he's an honest horse. Has he really run a race yet that merits the amount of attention he's received? Hell no.

Alot of otherwise pretty sharp people on here, for instance, picked him to win last Saturday, and I really had my mind boggled by that. To me, he was a stone cold throwout. I've seen too many nonsensical reasons to explain away his Breeders Cup performance as well, though I'm sure you are already contesting that in your head as you read this.

That second highest BSF going into the Derby was a complete joke, and most people knew that. How the hell does he go off at such long odds with such an apparently impressive resume??

Finally, your assertion that I'm thumping my chest sounds like sour grapes coming from someone who has been quite vocally opposed to betting AP since before the Breeders Cup.

You show me one instance on here where I was thumping my chest about him winning the Derby. You won't, because if anything, I publicly stated that I was somewhat underwhelmed by his performance, and in fact, thought he was going to lose while watching the race.

Try to be objective Nick, as you are accusing me of not doing myself.

What's enough is enough is your lack of objectivity regarding this topic.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Pace was NOT slow. Frosted closed into a 26 final quarter and didnt get past Danzig Moon. I dont get the Frosted love. Dortmund was projected to be on pace by TimeForm it was hardily a surprise. TimeForm has the race faster then Beyer relatively speaking to their scales. AP traveled 29 feet more then Firing Line and I think 69 more then Dortmund.

I figure Dortmund to Haskel AP to Travers.

I didn't say the pace was slow, I said it was non-existential - RE: the expected front end meltdown that didn't materialize. Say what you will, 47.34/1.11.29 isn't lighting the world on fire - I believe Beyer got it right.

I'm guessing you didn't see how rank Frosted was getting away when taken back and had to be moved out to settle, and still came on better than than anyone else.