Sour grapes???

[RockHardTen1985]

Is this Miller being a sore loser or does he have a point? IMO the horse was dead tired and was stopping badly. Anyone else have an opinion?

http://www.drf.com/news/premium/big-...rs-cup-classic

Here is the important stuff from the article.....

The incident with Wicked Strong, and the resulting injury to jockey Rajiv Maragh, was the most noticeable incident in the strangely run race. But Miller was left puzzled about Ortiz’s handling of Big Cazanova, believing the rider simply gave up on the horse at the quarter pole.

“We weren’t happy with the effort of the rider in New York,” Miller said. “I called the stewards, and Ortiz told them the horse was lugging out. But I didn’t see that at all. It was all very strange. Thank God the horse is good.”

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Is this Miller being a sore loser or does he have a point? IMO the horse was dead tired and was stopping badly. Anyone else have an opinion?

http://www.drf.com/news/premium/big-...rs-cup-classic

Here is the important stuff from the article.....

The incident with Wicked Strong, and the resulting injury to jockey Rajiv Maragh, was the most noticeable incident in the strangely run race. But Miller was left puzzled about Ortiz’s handling of Big Cazanova, believing the rider simply gave up on the horse at the quarter pole.

“We weren’t happy with the effort of the rider in New York,” Miller said. “I called the stewards, and Ortiz told them the horse was lugging out. But I didn’t see that at all. It was all very strange. Thank God the horse is good.”

Did the jock ever even shake the rains at him? He looked so full of horse into the turn I though he was just cantering and was going to win.

It was odd to say the least. I thought he was being eased until the horse I saw the chart.

[senator L]

Hmmm. The first two times horses came at him he seemed to
spurt away, but the last time nothing. Didn't look like the jockey
did anything to try and keep him going though.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Is this Miller being a sore loser or does he have a point? IMO the horse was dead tired and was stopping badly. Anyone else have an opinion?

http://www.drf.com/news/premium/big-...rs-cup-classic

Here is the important stuff from the article.....

The incident with Wicked Strong, and the resulting injury to jockey Rajiv Maragh, was the most noticeable incident in the strangely run race. But Miller was left puzzled about Ortiz’s handling of Big Cazanova, believing the rider simply gave up on the horse at the quarter pole.

“We weren’t happy with the effort of the rider in New York,” Miller said. “I called the stewards, and Ortiz told them the horse was lugging out. But I didn’t see that at all. It was all very strange. Thank God the horse is good.”

I was totally puzzled by it. I was watching the race live and at first I thought that either the saddle slipped or he had some type of broken equipment. Then I thought that maybe the horse had taken a bad step and was being pulled up. It was strange to say the least. He looked like he had some horse as they were approaching the 5/16 pole, yet instead of riding the horse he was restraining the horse. I actually called a couple of people after the race to ask if they saw it. It's pretty unusual to see a horse on the lead and appearing to be running fine and to have the jockey restraining the horse (at a point in the race when you need to start asking the horse).

It's not unusual for a jockey to wrap up on a horse after the horse starts tiring, but it's very unusual to see a jock wrap up on a horse before the horse starts tiring, which looked like the case in this race. The only thing I can think of is that the horse simply didn't feel right to the rider, yet all I heard the rider say was that the horse was getting out a little. Maybe he meant that the horse didn't feel right and that was just a nice way of saying that. I don't know.

[Big Peps]

Ortiz has had a few head scratchers the past few weeks, last Friday he had a train wreck of a ride on Bernie the maestro.

[letswastemoney]

Both Ortiz brothers tend to give strange rides in between all their good ones...but it could just be inexperience.

Or it could be something else. I don't know.

[pointman]

If the stewards took no action on Jose Ortiz' ride on Gem City Gal back in June, which I was certainly not the only one to question what he was doing on that horse but it certainly wasn't trying to win the race, I can't imagine they will take action on this.

[letswastemoney]

Originally Posted by pointman

If the stewards took no action on Jose Ortiz' ride on Gem City Gal back in June, which I was certainly not the only one to question what he was doing on that horse but it certainly wasn't trying to win the race, I can't imagine they will take action on this.

He especially gives some strange rides. Broke first with Samraat in the Belmont Stakes and rated him back into last. Rated Itsagoodtendollars in last off a 26 and change opening quarter at Aqueduct last winter. Let R Free Roll take the lead while riding need the lead La Verdad.

I never saw the Gem City Gal race, but I imagine it was similar to those.

[pointman]

Here is a link to the Gem City Gal race, she is the 4 horse. Watch his arms on the turn and through the stretch.

http://www.nyra.com/belmont/videos/r...0140621/3/pan/

If I remember correctly he said the horse was getting out. Maybe so, but it seemed to me that a right handed hit could have helped that as opposed to his response to not ride the horse.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by pointman

Here is a link to the Gem City Gal race, she is the 4 horse. Watch his arms on the turn and through the stretch.

http://www.nyra.com/belmont/videos/r...0140621/3/pan/

If I remember correctly he said the horse was getting out. Maybe so, but it seemed to me that a right handed hit could have helped that as opposed to his response to not ride the horse.

at least you could see that horse getting out, but still, that effort is so poor.

[asudevil]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Is this Miller being a sore loser or does he have a point? IMO the horse was dead tired and was stopping badly. Anyone else have an opinion?

http://www.drf.com/news/premium/big-...rs-cup-classic

Here is the important stuff from the article.....

The incident with Wicked Strong, and the resulting injury to jockey Rajiv Maragh, was the most noticeable incident in the strangely run race. But Miller was left puzzled about Ortiz’s handling of Big Cazanova, believing the rider simply gave up on the horse at the quarter pole.

“We weren’t happy with the effort of the rider in New York,” Miller said. “I called the stewards, and Ortiz told them the horse was lugging out. But I didn’t see that at all. It was all very strange. Thank God the horse is good.”

No RHT....wrong! Peter had a very valid point. Several of us watching in a Vegas race book were completely befuddled. It was painfully obvious that Ortiz checked out.

[iamthelurker]

Originally Posted by pointman

Here is a link to the Gem City Gal race, she is the 4 horse. Watch his arms on the turn and through the stretch.

http://www.nyra.com/belmont/videos/r...0140621/3/pan/

If I remember correctly he said the horse was getting out. Maybe so, but it seemed to me that a right handed hit could have helped that as opposed to his response to not ride the horse.

Was she ever going to finish higher than 3rd? He didn't make much effort but if he had finished 4th I'd understand the outrage more.

And Cazanova was getting out which is Alvarados only feasible explanation for trying to go inside of him at the point of the turn.

[Danzig]

a jock should be called out, or more, for a bad ride. especially if he quit on the horse and most likely cost it finishing higher. there's no reason to accept things like that.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by iamthelurker

Was she ever going to finish higher than 3rd? He didn't make much effort but if he had finished 4th I'd understand the outrage more.

And Cazanova was getting out which is Alvarados only feasible explanation for trying to go inside of him at the point of the turn.

Seriously? Clearly you don't understand the rules of the game.

The horse was on the lead coming off the turn, was never asked to run and Ortiz never went to the whip.

You have never seen a horse come off the turn, be asked and go on to win a race?

[asudevil]

Originally Posted by iamthelurker

Was she ever going to finish higher than 3rd? He didn't make much effort but if he had finished 4th I'd understand the outrage more.

And Cazanova was getting out which is Alvarados only feasible explanation for trying to go inside of him at the point of the turn.

Like no offense.....but were you watching the same race that we are discussing. Turning for home Ortiz hadn't even moved a muscle.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by asudevil

Like no offense.....but were you watching the same race that we are discussing. Turning for home Ortiz hadn't even moved a muscle.

I think races are getting mixed with the intro of the Gem City race....

sticking to this one it looks worse as they horse was not getting out at all.

Its not like this was a bad decision by a rider which happens, this seemed like he was pulling the horse for no reason.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by iamthelurker

Was she ever going to finish higher than 3rd? He didn't make much effort but if he had finished 4th I'd understand the outrage more.

And Cazanova was getting out which is Alvarados only feasible explanation for trying to go inside of him at the point of the turn.

I agree. I thought the horse was gasping turning for home.

[iamthelurker]

Originally Posted by pointman

Seriously? Clearly you don't understand the rules of the game.

The horse was on the lead coming off the turn, was never asked to run and Ortiz never went to the whip.

You have never seen a horse come off the turn, be asked and go on to win a race?

Clearly, someone lost a bet.

He's getting passed by both inside and outside horses coming off the turn while badly getting out (a sign of a tiring horse).

I have seen horses come off the turn be asked for more and go on to win races.

[iamthelurker]

Originally Posted by asudevil

Like no offense.....but were you watching the same race that we are discussing. Turning for home Ortiz hadn't even moved a muscle.

Yes I am, you guys are right Ortiz should have put his horse into an aggressive drive midway through the turn under right handed urging. That would of given the people who bet on his horse some sense of comfort when it faded to finish a well beaten 3rd.

Instead he was lazy, knew his horse was tiring and didn't make much effort.

Anyone who thinks Gem City Gal runs anything better than 3rd in that race is wrong.

[iamthelurker]

The outrage over jockeys who wrap on horses that are going to run off the board is a tricky debate to get into. Is a rider supposed to lay into a tiring horse for the sake of the money placed on that horses efforts? Or is he supposed to take the horses well being and condition coming out of the race into mind. What would the gambler want? What would the trainer/owner want? What is right?

This is why things like this most likely warrant case by case opinions but both gamblers and trainers/owners all only have one scapegoat once the gates open and that's the man risking his life on board.

And really come on guys this Jose Ortiz couldn't even shine Jose Santos or Kent D's boots when it comes to wrapping up on a horse who may have actually ran 2nd instead of 4th.