Jockey shenanigans mar BC prep races

[jms62]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I singled Cay to Pomeroy in the 3rd race at Belmont today because he looked for all the world like lone speed. Instead, Jose Ortiz unexpectedly hard sent Starship Captain after him, which was clearly a suicide mission. Cay to Pomeroy won the battle but lost the war, getting passed by two closers late and killing my multis. I DEMAND AN INVESTIGATION!!!

Really Joey? Disappointed that you belittle our argument.. Because it has nothing whatsoever to do with the situation you just presented.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by jms62

Really Joey? Disappointed that you belittle our argument.. Because it has nothing whatsoever to do with the situation you just presented.

I think your argument would have validity if you weren't clinging on to the Shared Belief race as an example. That wasn't stiffing a horse, it was race-riding the overwhelming favorite with a hopeless longshot. Sky Kingdom was never winning that race or even competing in any scenario, so I don't understand how him making things a little tougher on the big chalk is such an outrage.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I think your argument would have validity if you weren't clinging on to the Shared Belief race as an example. That wasn't stiffing a horse, it was race-riding the overwhelming favorite with a hopeless longshot.

Well you are absolutely wrong and many of us feel the same way but that is ok. Pretty funny you cite hopeless longshot in the same post where your single was beaten by a hopeless longshot.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by jms62

Well you are absolutely wrong and many of us feel the same way but that is ok. Pretty funny you cite hopeless longshot in the same post where your single was beaten by a hopeless longshot.

What's even funnier is I liked the winner enough to use underneath but couldn't pull the trigger on top. If I had known JLO was gonna ride the race to apparently only beat the favorite, I might've gotten some of that $71.50 win mutuel. But that's racing. Until we put tiny robots on the horses' backs, jockeys are gonna do dumb sh!t to screw you over from time to time.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

What's even funnier is I liked the winner enough to use underneath but couldn't pull the trigger on top. If I had known JLO was gonna ride the race to apparently only beat the favorite, I might've gotten some of that $71.50 win mutuel. But that's racing. Until we put tiny robots on the horses' backs, jockeys are gonna do dumb sh!t to screw you over from time to time.

Surprised the Pick 5 didn't carry

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I think your argument would have validity if you weren't clinging on to the Shared Belief race as an example. That wasn't stiffing a horse, it was race-riding the overwhelming favorite with a hopeless longshot. Sky Kingdom was never winning that race or even competing in any scenario, so I don't understand how him making things a little tougher on the big chalk is such an outrage.

a little tougher?

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I think your argument would have validity if you weren't clinging on to the Shared Belief race as an example. That wasn't stiffing a horse, it was race-riding the overwhelming favorite with a hopeless longshot. Sky Kingdom was never winning that race or even competing in any scenario, so I don't understand how him making things a little tougher on the big chalk is such an outrage.

Possibly because it was designed as a prep for the BC... not an all out, life or death struggle to the end?
You can't think for a moment that Hollendorfer really gave two sh1ts about the race - he was livid that the effort took too much from the horse.

Baffert whines like a baby when GoD doesn't get a clear lead and then pulls this bush-league horsesh1t.... Art Sherman owes him a steak dinner.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

a little tougher?

Yeah, a little tougher. Jesus, I've never seen a horse getting floated wide on the first turn treated like such a travesty.

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Possibly because it was designed as a prep for the BC... not an all out, life or death struggle to the end?
You can't think for a moment that Hollendorfer really gave two sh1ts about the race - he was livid that the effort took too much from the horse.

Baffert whines like a baby when GoD doesn't get a clear lead and then pulls this bush-league horsesh1t.... Art Sherman owes him a steak dinner.

So the rest of the field is obligated to sit back and let him have a public workout for $300k so he can be even tougher in the BC?

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Yeah, a little tougher. Jesus, I've never seen a horse getting floated wide on the first turn treated like such a travesty.



So the rest of the field is obligated to sit back and let him have a public workout for $300k so he can be even tougher in the BC?

Going that wide on that hot of a pace for the entire race is very difficult type of trip.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Going that wide on that hot of a pace for the entire race is very difficult type of trip.

Never said it wasn't. In fact, I came on here and said that was much more impressive than his Pacific Classic win because of the trip. But Shared Belief was going to have a tough, wide trip regardless of whether Sky Kingdom floated him out 1-2 paths on the first turn. Hence "a little tougher."

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Never said it wasn't. In fact, I came on here and said that was much more impressive than his Pacific Classic win because of the trip. But Shared Belief was going to have a tough, wide trip regardless of whether Sky Kingdom floated him out 1-2 paths on the first turn. Hence "a little tougher."

why, he didnt in the classic. I dont know how you know he was.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Yeah, a little tougher. Jesus, I've never seen a horse getting floated wide on the first turn treated like such a travesty.



So the rest of the field is obligated to sit back and let him have a public workout for $300k so he can be even tougher in the BC?

Yes Joey, that's precisely the point.

The horse was purposely entered to herd the favorite 7 paths out. No other purpose.

It has absolutely nothing to do with co-entered rabbits, et. al. other "apples to oranges" comparisons.

It has everything to do with taking a legal betting interest, and premeditatively compromising any chance at all it may have had to hit the board for no reason other than to impede another horse.

If you have no problem with that, I'm not going to change your mind.

Apparently the stewards did, and I agree with their decision.

[Port Conway Lane]

So I am curious to know how it is acceptable to run a rabbit at a speed oriented favorite at the expense of the rabbit's chances to win the race. The rabbit is a legal betting interest whose sole purpose is to compromise the chances of the favorite. The public lost money on the rabbit.

Ultimately this is no different than what happened in this race. The only difference is that the tactics changed in this race, the favorite was compromised by being carried wide. The tactics almost worked, it was a close finish.

The racing form does not put an asterisk next to the name of the rabbit reminding bettors that an agenda is at hand and to beware that this horse is not in the race to win. It does list the name of the trainer so bettor beware, the lesser of the entry, coupled or not, could possibly be in there to help his stablemate.

What bothers me more is what I can't see in the form. Like Gary Stevens running Fury Kapcori to a 1:09 and change 6f split going 1 1/4 miles.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Port Conway Lane

So I am curious to know how it is acceptable to run a rabbit at a speed oriented favorite at the expense of the rabbit's chances to win the race. The rabbit is a legal betting interest whose sole purpose is to compromise the chances of the favorite. The public lost money on the rabbit.

Ultimately this is no different than what happened in this race. The only difference is that the tactics changed in this race, the favorite was compromised by being carried wide. The tactics almost worked, it was a close finish.

The racing form does not put an asterisk next to the name of the rabbit reminding bettors that an agenda is at hand and to beware that this horse is not in the race to win. It does list the name of the trainer so bettor beware, the lesser of the entry, coupled or not, could possibly be in there to help his stablemate.

What bothers me more is what I can't see in the form. Like Gary Stevens running Fury Kapcori to a 1:09 and change 6f split going 1 1/4 miles.

rabbits are entered to ensure a good early pace, not necessarily to intentionally lose, or intentionally cause a wide trip.

past performances tell you who's the rabbit. they don't however let you know who's there to engage in herding. besides, sometimes rabbits get alone on the lead and stay there til the end. Aristides won the first derby when entered to set the pace for the stable star, who forgot to get going in the end of the race.
there's no way to know about these sorts of things and when they may happen again.
I think the biggest issue is bettors felt rooked, and when they bring it up, they're told too bad, get over it. it's really the only business I know of that the customer is told 'tough, stop complaining, but please keep betting'.