OWS Zucotti Park

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Being in the park around the clock is legal, but camping out in it is NOT legal. That is referenced by the term "camping out".

Actually, no, the judge just ruled camping out illegal yesterday in the overturning of the temporary restraining order. There was no reference to camping before that in this type of park, only the NYC owned parks. That's why there was alot of confusion in the first forty days, and why Bloomberg allowed it.

Until, at 1:00am with only 10 minutes warning, he sent in his stormtroopers to illegal seize citizens property, and arrest them for exercising their constitutional rights.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

yeah, how dare American citizens protest wonderful champions of humanity like the government and Wall Street, who we all know have the best interests for the American people at heart.

I doubt the 90% thing is even close to true. Many Republicans, Libertarians and Tea Party members are part of Occupy Wall Street.

True. Most of the protesters are employed, many are not just "students" or the young. Many are at the various Occupy protests while they are on vacation days.

The Occupy movement is primarily protesting the ownership of this government by monied corporate interests, to the detriment of the vast majority of it's citizens.

That people are defending that shows how effective their propaganda machine has been over the past 40 years.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

my cousin, an 18 year old freshman at UNC Charlotte, started Occupy UNCC. Our entire family is extremely proud and supportive of him and his cause. and you wont find one liberal in this family. When will people realize this has NOTHING to do with partisan politics.

http://nineronline.com/2011/occupy-u...begin-protest/

Good for him!

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

is that wall streets fault, or the govts?

It's OUR fault, for allowing it to happen.

Good grief: look at the current GOP candidates: Herman Cain is wholly-owned by the Koch brothers (as is his chief of staff, Mark Block, they both were lecturers on the Koch circuit and employees), Newt Gingrich was exposed just today to be lying about the millions he received as a lobbyist for Freddie Mac (he denied the income and the lobbying). We elect these people. Yes, Obama has tons of ties to Goldman Sachs.

Occupy says that's over. Dems, Republicans, it doesn't matter - if you are owned by lobbyists, if you govern for them and not us, your days are numbered. It's that simple.

Occupy has spread to 200 occupations world-wide. It will be the most potent political force in the next election. It is completely non-partisan.

That scares the status quo corporatists, as they will not be able to purchase it, as they did the Tea Party.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Neither - it is the Electorate's fault for laying complacent and allowing criminals to infiltrate Wall St. and the Gov't without reproach.

i disagree.
the buyer is wrong, but i would think the seller would be more so. but i am neither, how am i at fault? all i'm asking is, how can you blame wall street? you can't buy what someone else isn't selling. the govt is supposed to do what's best, not what's purchased. if they have no honor, they need to go. they're supposed to be the ones who make laws to prevent things such as the whole banking scandal. instead, congress voted to get rid of regulations to prevent what happened after-and now we know why. if you're bought, you know immediately you're corrupt. it's not something voters find out about right away. now we know, so hopefully now there will be action.
lol yeah, right.
just like congress was going to become more ethical. the fox is watching the henhouse in that regard.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

It's OUR fault, for allowing it to happen.

Good grief: look at the current GOP candidates: Herman Cain is wholly-owned by the Koch brothers (as is his chief of staff, Mark Block, they both were lecturers on the Koch circuit and employees), Newt Gingrich was exposed just today to be lying about the millions he received as a lobbyist for Freddie Mac (he denied the income and the lobbying). We elect these people. Yes, Obama has tons of ties to Goldman Sachs.

Occupy says that's over. Dems, Republicans, it doesn't matter - if you are owned by lobbyists, if you govern for them and not us, your days are numbered. It's that simple.

Occupy has spread to 200 occupations world-wide. It will be the most potent political force in the next election. It is completely non-partisan.

That scares the status quo corporatists, as they will not be able to purchase it, as they did the Tea Party.

this is one of the reasons i advocate term limits. people can't become entrenched and send pork back for their constituents to get fat on, if they can't stay long enough to become 'too big to fail'.
as for cain, he's not a current officeholder, not sure what you mentioned him for. it's the decades-long senators and representatives who have figured out how to work the system.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Riot

It's OUR fault, for allowing it to happen.

Good grief: look at the current GOP candidates: Herman Cain is wholly-owned by the Koch brothers (as is his chief of staff, Mark Block, they both were lecturers on the Koch circuit and employees), Newt Gingrich was exposed just today to be lying about the millions he received as a lobbyist for Freddie Mac (he denied the income and the lobbying). We elect these people. Yes, Obama has tons of ties to Goldman Sachs.

Occupy says that's over. Dems, Republicans, it doesn't matter - if you are owned by lobbyists, if you govern for them and not us, your days are numbered. It's that simple.

Occupy has spread to 200 occupations world-wide. It will be the most potent political force in the next election. It is completely non-partisan.

That scares the status quo corporatists, as they will not be able to purchase it, as they did the Tea Party.

Sure they will, in the end it will just come cheaper.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

as for cain, he's not a current officeholder, not sure what you mentioned him for. .

Because he is a self-described, "Koch brotha by another motha". He and his campaign chief Block have long worked for the Koch brothers and their PAC. Everyone knows this - Cain even BRAGS about it, see above quote - Cain has run for Senator and President before. Who is keeping his campaign financed? Look at his campaign finance documents. Before Cain worked for the Koch brothers, he was (famously) lobbyist for the National Restaurant Association.

Cain is a wholly-owned corporate candidate. He is currently owned by the Koch brothers. And they are not even shy about saying that. Yet there are tons of American voters out there who mistakenly think Cain is some kind of magical "independent businessman" with no ties to Washington? Good grief, Cain himself brags on his Koch connection! He is proud of it!

Cain is what OWS is all about.

[DaTruth]

Originally Posted by Riot

Occupy has spread to 200 occupations world-wide. It will be the most potent political force in the next election. It is completely non-partisan.

Any effect that it will have is to hurt moderate Democrats in toss-up districts and states.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by DaTruth

Any effect that it will have is to hurt moderate Democrats in toss-up districts and states.

How?

I will say that "moderate Dems" today (not blue dogs) is exactly what a Republican was 20 years ago Our Democratic party is very conservative, compared to the rest of first world countries.

The Democratic party has more politicians aligned with OWS values than the Republicans (zero) but half the Dems are corporate owned puppets, too.

OWS isn't going to go to candidates and endorse them. OWS is about values, morality and ethics in government, getting the American government back into the hands of the citizens, and getting corporate ownership out.

Candidates - like Elizabeth Warren - that support OWS type values will win overwhelmingly. She's already drawing legendary crowd numbers to support her candidacy.

The Republican party seems to be currently imploding with extremism and corporate ownership. Walker (Wisconsin), Kasich (Ohio) and Scott (Florida) are the most disliked governors in the country. All swing states that will affect the downticket candidates. Kasich just had his signature union-busting legislation repealed, his voter ID blocking is up for repeal now, too; Walker is currently under a recall attempt with multiple other Republicans in government in Wisconsin. Florida can't recall Scott, but they have major buyers regret. He's the least liked governor in the country.

Thus the Occupy movement, I think, will NOT hurt those moderate Dems, but help them, as they are so contrasted with the extremes the Republicans have become. So many people have left the current Republican party to call themselves "Independents", because they don't want to be associated with the John Birch Society/Republicans, I think those will embrace those "moderate Dems" (who are actually a more typical Republican).

There are only 25-28% of people that strongly self-identify as "Republican" with the current party. I think all the ex-Republicans will become the new "moderate Dems" and "independents" and there will emerge a smaller (25-30%) new and very progressive wing of the Democratic party (more Occupy). The current Republican party will be relegated to third party status.

Your thoughts?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Can you provide a link detailing when the dimensions of the park changed? I have walked around, through, and passed it for years, and it always appeared to be the same size.

Perhaps the industrious miscreants increased the size of the park in the few weeks since I last visited it -- on more than once occasion -- and yesterday.

That crowd always struck me as the "doers" of society.

Why don't you simply pay attention to the news stories, the live images, the pictures?

News story on the eviction and the reopening, with lots of video, Richard Engle on the ground at Zucotti park last night as it was reopening: http://abcnews.go.com/US/Economy/occ...ry?id=14955681

Below, around 7pm, Zucotti park after it was reopened yesterday (barricaded by the PD, two openings for entrance,exit with police inspection, park surrounded by police barricades, entire park filled and people filled sidewalks surrounding park)



Protesters waiting to be readmitted to park

[DaTruth]

Originally Posted by Riot

How?

I will say that "moderate Dems" today (not blue dogs) is exactly what a Republican was 20 years ago Our Democratic party is very conservative, compared to the rest of first world countries.

The Democratic party has more politicians aligned with OWS values than the Republicans (zero) but half the Dems are corporate owned puppets, too.

OWS isn't going to go to candidates and endorse them. OWS is about values, morality and ethics in government, getting the American government back into the hands of the citizens, and getting corporate ownership out.

Candidates - like Elizabeth Warren - that support OWS type values will win overwhelmingly. She's already drawing legendary crowd numbers to support her candidacy.

The Republican party seems to be currently imploding with extremism and corporate ownership. Walker (Wisconsin), Kasich (Ohio) and Scott (Florida) are the most disliked governors in the country. All swing states that will affect the downticket candidates. Kasich just had his signature union-busting legislation repealed, his voter ID blocking is up for repeal now, too; Walker is currently under a recall attempt with multiple other Republicans in government in Wisconsin. Florida can't recall Scott, but they have major buyers regret. He's the least liked governor in the country.

Thus the Occupy movement, I think, will NOT hurt those moderate Dems, but help them, as they are so contrasted with the extremes the Republicans have become. So many people have left the current Republican party to call themselves "Independents", because they don't want to be associated with the John Birch Society/Republicans, I think those will embrace those "moderate Dems" (who are actually a more typical Republican).

There are only 25-28% of people that strongly self-identify as "Republican" with the current party. I think all the ex-Republicans will become the new "moderate Dems" and "independents" and there will emerge a smaller (25-30%) new and very progressive wing of the Democratic party (more Occupy). The current Republican party will be relegated to third party status.

Your thoughts?

OWS is not presenting a coherent message, and I suppose that is part of its charm to participants who feel they have an equal say in where OWS goes from here. But no organization can survive without any sort of hierarchy. Orders from the the generals at the top eventually make their way to the foot soldiers.

If OWS is a sustainable NATIONAL political movement, then you will see like-minded Democratic candidates in swing states embrace it next summer. Otherwise, it is going to be relegated to having influence in liberal districts and states. Remember, what plays in New York does not necessarily play in Little Rock. If OWS is viewed as a movement hijacked by liberal extremists, then don't count on independents siding with them over the Republicans.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Bloomberg allowed it because he is a liberal whose girlfriend is on the park's ownership's board.

Then what was his excuse for sending in storm troopers at 1:00am yesterday?

How many times have YOU walked around Zuccotti Park?

None. I know very well the dimensions of the park, having watched multiple live feeds, including overheads, over the past six weeks. Yeah, it's very small. When multiple news feeds show and say there are two to three thousand people there when it opened yesterday at 5:00pm, and yeah, it sure looks like that - I believe it.

You are free to continue deny that's physically possible.

(And why could you not take the time to spell it correctly in your thread title?)

Well, I think that disallows anything I say about it, certainly!

[Riot]

Originally Posted by DaTruth

OWS is not presenting a coherent message, and I suppose that is part of its charm to participants who feel they have an equal say in where OWS goes from here. But no organization can survive without any sort of hierarchy. Orders from the the generals at the top eventually make their way to the foot soldiers.

If OWS is a sustainable NATIONAL political movement, then you will see like-minded Democratic candidates in swing states embrace it next summer. Otherwise, it is going to be relegated to having influence in liberal districts and states. Remember, what plays in New York does not necessarily play in Little Rock. If OWS is viewed as a movement hijacked by liberal extremists, then don't count on independents siding with them over the Republicans.

You make valid points.

However, I think, as Antitrust has said, Occupy is clearly "not" a "liberal" movement, there are plenty of Libertarians (tons of Ron Paul supporters) along with Republicans, Dems, progressives, anarchists, etc. The vast majority are just average Americans - nurses, doctors, union workers, students, etc.

Regarding "the message" - the "message" has been very clear and coherent to anybody who has bothered to pay attention: our government has been corrupted by money, is owned by corporate interests, and the average voting American thus has little say in what happens any more, and has been very screwed over the past 40-50 years while the plutocracy has thrived. They want to change that.

I really don't see how anyone can miss this. The mainstream media has generally done a very poor job of presenting Occupy - but there is limitless factual information out there over the internet - anyone can get involved.

As far as "organization" or "government" of the Occupy movement, they have a very well-developed representative General Assembly process, they have close contacts between Occupies in different towns (Little Rock vs New York).

The paradigm of "one leader" being necessary is very successfully being refuted so far. You have to be willing to let go of the political labels of "Dem, Republican", etc.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cardus

I recant: there must be not thousands, but MILLIONS in that picture!

MILLIONS!

Where did you protest, you occupier, you?

I actually happened to be watching the live feed when the Bloomberg stormtroopers busted in, and stayed with it for another couple hours. It was amazing to see that unfold live on the Ustream and Twitter, and Kos.

Then I sent them a $200 donation (see their website for the link, I'm sure you'll want to donate) to help OWS replace the destroyed computers, books and medical equipment

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by Cardus

I recant: there must be not thousands, but MILLIONS in that picture!

MILLIONS!

Where did you protest, you occupier, you?

ROR !!

Have you seen Fish lately ?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cardus

If the Dailykos is on the scene, then it is certainly not a liberal movement.

If information was available about Occupy on Red State or Big Government, I'd be looking there

But yes, those godless hippies do tend to be more giving towards the rights of others - versus, say, Boehner, Cantor, McConnell Of course, the Ron Paulites are there, too. Republicans, Independents ...

OccupyWallSt.org:

Tomorrow, Thursday November 17th, marks two months since the start of Occupy Wall Street as well as International Students Day. To commemorate this two month anniversary, Occupy Wall Street will take to the streets in celebration and in solidarity with people around the world participating in a massive global day of action in hundreds of cities.

7:00am — Shut Down Wall Street
We will gather in Liberty Square at 7:00am, before the ring of the Trading Floor Bell, to prepare to confront Wall Street with the stories of people on the frontlines of economic injustice.

3:00pm — Occupy the Subway
We will gather at 3:00pm at 16 central subway hubs and take our own stories to the trains, using the "People's Mic". Details here.

5:00pm — Take the Square, Festival of Lights on Brooklyn Bridge
At 5:00pm thousands will gather at Foley Square in solidarity with laborers demanding jobs to rebuild this country's infrastructure and economy. They will encircle City Hall and march across the Brooklyn Bridge, carrying thousands of handheld lights, as a festival of lights to celebrate two months of a new movement to reclaim our democracy.

There are events planned in numerous major cities:

In Boston, Detroit, Washington DC, Portland and Seattle, protesters, some allied with union workers and community groups, will march on high-profile bridges in order to highlight the problem of America's crumbling and underfunded infrastructure.

"We don't want to make this about police and protesters," said Stephen Squibb, an organiser with Occupy Boston, whose group will target the city's North Washington Street bridge. "It is about jobs and other things. That has been our message for two months and we are going to keep saying it," he added.

The range of activities across America spans a spectrum from the dramatic to the small-scale, including teach-ins, rallies and direct actions aimed at banks and corporations. In Portland, Oregon, protesters plan to target a city bridge and then try to organise flashmobs to go to local banks. In Detroit, protesters are marching from their camp downtown to the city's municipal centre, where they aim to highlight the brutal impact of government cuts on ordinary citizens.

[P]rotesters in Atlanta will hold events targeting two major corporations in the form of Home Depot and Verizon. In Las Vegas, protesters have vowed to set up an early morning encampment outside a federal building downtown and stay until police remove them. In Chicago, a major rally is planned with local union workers and community groups.

In Memphis, a "midnight march" is planned through the city centre. In Phoenix, local members of the movement are targeting the city's light rail network during the morning rush hour.

We are at a necessary evolution point in the Occupy movement. I say "necessary" for two reasons: one, because of the hard truth that cities around the nation simply cannot tolerate camping as a form of free speech, thus necessitating a response to "putting tents up" that is increasingly relying on tear gas, riot gear, and mass arrests.

Two, because they aren't listening. The government, Wall Street, the media: they simply aren't listening yet. Most press coverage revolves around which cities beat the holy hell out of which protestors on any given day or which senior citizen posed such a damn threat to the riot-gear-laden police that they needed to be pepper sprayed, but the underlying messages of income inequality, corporate corruption and a captured government are, unsurprisingly, still being stonewalled.

Mayor Michael Bloomberg doesn't want people camping in his park anymore. Fine, then: he will push the protests into taking another form. That's probably good for the movement, and probably is probably going to be worse for him.

More Occupy news:

* Federal prosecution of financial fraud is at a 20-year low. Now, let's reflect on that. The whole "meltdown of the economy due to massive frauds perpetrated by top financial firms" bit would, you would think, have resulted in lighting a fire under prosecutors of such fraud. Nope. A Twenty. Year. Low. In the last few years, prosecutions for financial fraud have dropped to about one third of what those numbers were in the 1990's.

So if you were thinking that all of the high-profile news about slap-on-the-wrist, no-fault-admitted settlements for foreclosure fraud, selling fraudulent derivatives and the like sounded like the government was going remarkably easy on instances of Wall Street fraud, congratulations: apparently, you're right.

* The New York Press Club is asking for an investigation into the harassment and arrests of reporters during yesterday's enforced media blackout during the eviction at Zuccotti. Bloomberg says such things are done "routinely", which either means he's a damn idiot or there's an even bigger story to be written about ongoing NYPD abuse of reporters.

* Most of the books from the confiscated Occupy Wall Street Library were damaged or destroyed, as well as other personal property:

“There are only about 25 boxes of books; many of the books are destroyed. Laptops here but destroyed. Can’t find tent or shelves.”

“Many books destroyed. Most equipment -and structures missing. . . most of library is missing (ALL of the reference section btw), damaged or destroyed. “

Remember, this was done because Bloomberg and the park owners were concerned about protesters possibly damaging the property. But screw you, protesters, we'll damage whatever the hell we want.

* From Salon, the headline sums it up:
"Daily News cheers Occupy Wall Street raid, until Daily News reporter is arrested"
Their reaction went from "Bravo" to calling the action "alarming" and calling their attorney. Funny how that works. Oh, and no word on whether that reporter still has a working laptop.

* New York City Councilman Ydanis Rodriguez says he was detained for over 17 hours after being arrested during the Occupy Wall Street eviction, and was denied access to his attorney until just before release.

* Continuing the theme of New York law enforcement treating everyone like dirt, all the time: private security calling people "faggots". Yes, there's video.

* Elsewhere in the nation, America's most successful political liar has a grumpy day:
http://thinkprogress.org/...

“Karl Rove is the architect of Occupy Iraq, the architect of Occupy Afghanistan!” yelled the demonstrators. Occupy Baltimore had infiltrated the crowd and began chanting against Rove. “Who gave you the right to occupy America?” asked Rove to the protesters [...]

Who gave them the "right" to occupy America? Thomas f---ing Jefferson, jackass.

* Occupy Cal drew an estimated crowd of 10,000 people to the UC Berkeley campus last night. More pics here.
* Occupy Atlanta working to help prevent a foreclosure.

* I've been looking for news on repercussions against officers who have been videotaped using excessive force against protesters: pepper spraying sitting people, shooting people at close range with rubber bullets or tear gas, using nightsticks on people who are quite obviously not resisting. Anyone see squat about such things? No? All right, just checking.

To keep up with Occupy related events, especially local actions and first-person accounts from our community, follow the Occupy Wall Street group and the Occupy Wall Street tag right here http://www.dailykos.com/

[Riot]

http://www.politickerny.com/2011/11/...y-wall-street/

* NY Press Club Demands Investigation Into Reporters Arrested at Occupy Wall Street
* Paul Newell: My Night In The #OWS Lock-Up
* Councilman Ydanis Rodriguez Arrested, Injured at Occupy Wall Street Raid
* Bloomberg Spokesman Slams Mayoral Aspirants Over Criticisms of Occupy Wall Street Raid
* Mayor Bloomberg Explains His Decision to Raid Occupy Wall Street

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

Because he is a self-described, "Koch brotha by another motha". He and his campaign chief Block have long worked for the Koch brothers and their PAC. Everyone knows this - Cain even BRAGS about it, see above quote - Cain has run for Senator and President before. Who is keeping his campaign financed? Look at his campaign finance documents. Before Cain worked for the Koch brothers, he was (famously) lobbyist for the National Restaurant Association.

Cain is a wholly-owned corporate candidate. He is currently owned by the Koch brothers. And they are not even shy about saying that. Yet there are tons of American voters out there who mistakenly think Cain is some kind of magical "independent businessman" with no ties to Washington? Good grief, Cain himself brags on his Koch connection! He is proud of it!

Cain is what OWS is all about.

i don't expect him to win anyway, so i guess i just don't pay any attention to him.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i don't expect him to win anyway, so i guess i just don't pay any attention to him.

Today, Newt is talking about a Gingrich-Cain ticket. I think that's the "book sales" tour.

Here is a fantastic video interview with the 84-year-old, Dorli, who was pepper sprayed at Occupy Seattle (along with some pretty damning police brutality pictures). She talks also about being in German/Austria in WW2, listening to Goebbles propaganda. Amazing stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=ENfWJzXVD0Q#!