Monmouth situation increasingly dire..

[jms62]

Originally Posted by freddymo

The state of NJ should be ashamed. They had a magnificent concept, and it was a terriffic meet to attend bet and be part of. I swear I dont get it.

What is not to get. One could surmise that Christie has lots of "Friends" in Atlantic City. One also could surmise by his not squashing the absolute debacle Xanadu project, he has a lot of developer friends. Wait until Sports Betting comes to NJ and they decide that it will only be allowed in Atlantic City even though the Race tracks have been the only game in town for Betting on a sporting event.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by jms62

What is not to get. One could surmise that Christie has lots of "Friends" in Atlantic City. One also could surmise by his not squashing the absolute debacle Xanadu project, he has a lot of developer friends. Wait until Sports Betting comes to NJ and they decide that it will only be allowed in Atlantic City even though the Race tracks have been the only game in town for Betting on a sporting event.

At this point, don't they almost have to go through with the rest of the project (whatever it is)? The structure has been up forever, although I have no idea what the current plans are and what it looks like inside. All they would be doing by tearing it down is burning every single dollar they invested into the project. It probably is a lose lose proposition, but at this point maybe they can still salvage the place as a mall.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

At this point, don't they almost have to go through with the rest of the project (whatever it is)? The structure has been up forever, although I have no idea what the current plans are and what it looks like inside. All they would be doing by tearing it down is burning every single dollar they invested into the project. It probably is a lose lose proposition, but at this point maybe they can still salvage the place as a mall.

Say you bought Enron at its high, would you continue investing in it all the way down to zero? At what point do you stop throwing good money after bad?

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by jms62

Say you bought Enron at its high, would you continue investing in it all the way down to zero? At what point do you stop throwing good money after bad?

I think that's a bad analogy J. It's not like they have zero. They still have a massive structure with parking that (seems to be) built already. Not to mention that they now have a mass transit option to the place as well. I just think ditching at this point might by more of a colossal waste than finally following through with the project. Obviously if it's a mirage and it's nowhere near being done and the price tag is more ridiculous than ever, then yes I think it should be scrapped.

[freddymo]

I thought it was a great idea. I thought that if the State allocated 100mil over 5 years to reinvent the horse model it COULD have worked. Instead they shot there load in a summer.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

I thought it was a great idea. I thought that if the State allocated 100mil over 5 years to reinvent the horse model it COULD have worked. Instead they shot there load in a summer.

The thing is though Freddy it wasnt the states money anyway. The money came from a deal between Atlantic city casinos and the track. Monmouth/horseracing doesnt lose money for the state. The NJSEA loses money but it is really has virtually no usefulness at this point anyway

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The thing is though Freddy it wasnt the states money anyway. The money came from a deal between Atlantic city casinos and the track. Monmouth/horseracing doesnt lose money for the state. The NJSEA loses money but it is really has virtually no usefulness at this point anyway

It was the last of the casino supplement and I am ok with the Casino's pulling that off the table. Atlantic City is totally screwed. You have to understand that AC grew a huge infrastructure when the US was devoid of gambling. Now the country is loaded with gambling and the State does have to deal with ten of thousands of jobs that need some consideration.

The key is not the money the casinos were giving the tracks, the key was reinventing a sustainable model for an industry. IMO if the State invested in racing for 5 years at MP and atificially supported purses with seed money the product could have been groomed in time to be self sustaining and ultimately OK for the horseman, bettors and the State.

Government is suppose to invest in things which can spur growth. having a reasonably healthy horse business in NJ that is sustainable is worthy of investment. Just busting a nut of 30 million in a summer was silly. Yet what that 30 mil showed us is that big purses with big fields is a product people willingly wager on. As for 80k allowance races that still had 6 horses well that is a function of horse flesh and too many of the same horses with to few a trainer which over 5 years could have rectified itself with some work.

With NYRA gettng slot revenue will see if they are prudent enough to push for less dates, of course we all realize that what NYRA wants to do isnt always what the idiots who control them think they should do? Let's hope they try like heck to do the right thing.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

It was the last of the casino supplement and I am ok with the Casino's pulling that off the table. Atlantic City is totally screwed. You have to understand that AC grew a huge infrastructure when the US was devoid of gambling. Now the country is loaded with gambling and the State does have to deal with ten of thousands of jobs that need some consideration.

The key is not the money the casinos were giving the tracks, the key was reinventing a sustainable model for an industry. IMO if the State invested in racing for 5 years at MP and atificially supported purses with seed money the product could have been groomed in time to be self sustaining and ultimately OK for the horseman, bettors and the State.

Government is suppose to invest in things which can spur growth. having a reasonably healthy horse business in NJ that is sustainable is worthy of investment. Just busting a nut of 30 million in a summer was silly. Yet what that 30 mil showed us is that big purses with big fields is a product people willingly wager on. As for 80k allowance races that still had 6 horses well that is a function of horse flesh and too many of the same horses with to few a trainer which over 5 years could have rectified itself with some work.

With NYRA gettng slot revenue will see if they are prudent enough to push for less dates, of course we all realize that what NYRA wants to do isnt always what the idiots who control them think they should do? Let's hope they try like heck to do the right thing.

I hve no problem with the casino wanting to end the payments. However the reason that they were making them is still unresolved and a rational idea would be to form some sort of partnership to construct a casino at the Meadowlands that would help everyone. Of course AC doesnt want to do this because they are too greedy to share the profits, The Gov doesnt want to do this because he sways the way the casinos wind blows (obviously not an easy thing to accomplish considering his bulk) and lets face it the 1st 2 parties would rather bankrupt the "competition" before partnering with them.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I hve no problem with the casino wanting to end the payments. However the reason that they were making them is still unresolved and a rational idea would be to form some sort of partnership to construct a casino at the Meadowlands that would help everyone. Of course AC doesnt want to do this because they are too greedy to share the profits, The Gov doesnt want to do this because he sways the way the casinos wind blows (obviously not an easy thing to accomplish considering his bulk) and lets face it the 1st 2 parties would rather bankrupt the "competition" before partnering with them.

As I understand it, the subsidies by the casinos were agreed to in exchange for the State not allowing casinos elsewhere in the State, partiuclarly the Meadowlands, which would compete with Atlantic City. Now that AC is really in the sh!tter and has competition from everywhere surrounding it, Delaware, Pennsylvania and New York, they don't want to pay the subsidy yet AC still wants no competition within the State of New Jersey.

The casinos are obviously in the politicians pockets (and this is not limited to one party), yet I'm not sure why NJ government would not want to allow the racetracks to open casinos to subsidize both the horse racing industry (so they can at least compete with their neighbors) and raise valuable tax money for the politicians to spend. Lord knows that politicians in the Northeast can NEVER spend enough money.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pointman

As I understand it, the subsidies by the casinos were agreed to in exchange for the State not allowing casinos elsewhere in the State, partiuclarly the Meadowlands, which would compete with Atlantic City. Now that AC is really in the sh!tter and has competition from everywhere surrounding it, Delaware, Pennsylvania and New York, they don't want to pay the subsidy yet AC still wants no competition within the State of New Jersey.

The casinos are obviously in the politicians pockets (and this is not limited to one party), yet I'm not sure why NJ government would not want to allow the racetracks to open casinos to subsidize both the horse racing industry (so they can at least compete with their neighbors) and raise valuable tax money for the politicians to spend. Lord knows that politicians in the Northeast can NEVER spend enough money.

Because they can't make enough money for themselves if they have to split it with millionaire horse owners.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Because they can't make enough money for themselves if they have to split it with millionaire horse owners.

Therein lies the horseman's problem. The AC casinos (Donald Trump in particular) are a large reason why the Aqueduct casino took 10 years to ultimately get the full go ahead. It is a shame that horseman are being left in the cold since they cannot line the politicians pockets like the casinos can.

[richard burch]

PENNSYLVANIA SURPASSES ATLANTIC CITY FOR FIRST TIME IN MONTHLY CASINO REVENUE.


http://sboanj.com/index.asp?Key=2553

great job christie! thanks for pissing away the tax money you saved from the horse racing industry "extortionists" and dumping into the shithole that is a.c.



i believe this will only help to get slots in the tracks in n.j. just be patient. the fat man just hasn't recieved his goody bag yet.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I hve no problem with the casino wanting to end the payments. However the reason that they were making them is still unresolved and a rational idea would be to form some sort of partnership to construct a casino at the Meadowlands that would help everyone. Of course AC doesnt want to do this because they are too greedy to share the profits, The Gov doesnt want to do this because he sways the way the casinos wind blows (obviously not an easy thing to accomplish considering his bulk) and lets face it the 1st 2 parties would rather bankrupt the "competition" before partnering with them.

Another casino isnt the answer..its just another place to rob people.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Another casino isnt the answer..its just another place to rob people.

While you are right about this, other than NJ pumping $30 million year for the next 4 or 5 years to sustain the successful model used for 1 year until the purses could support such a meet going forward, how can NJ horse racing attempt to compete with New York, Delaware and Pennsylvania?

[freddymo]

[quote=pointman;826981]While you are right about this, other than NJ pumping $30 million year for the next 4 or 5 years to sustain the successful model used for 1 year until the purses could support such a meet going forward, how can NJ horse racing attempt to compete with New York, Delaware and Pennsylvania?[/QUOTE


Save NY which is the mecca of racing who cares about Pa/Delaware racing. the horses suck and the handles are a joke. Building another casino is silly. You have to think outside the box the State should recogize that investing BS (100 mil/5 years) money into the sport COULD have a lot of real value long term. Build a small cottage horse business that is attractive or at least sustainable for 12-16 week a year. You have to invest and seed an industry its what governmen is suppose to do.

[richard burch]

in the end you will see a few less casinos in a.c. and a casino in the meadowlands and maybe monmouth.

i'm not good picking horses but that is a lock.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by richard burch

PENNSYLVANIA SURPASSES ATLANTIC CITY FOR FIRST TIME IN MONTHLY CASINO REVENUE.


http://sboanj.com/index.asp?Key=2553

great job christie! thanks for pissing away the tax money you saved from the horse racing industry "extortionists" and dumping into the shithole that is a.c.



i believe this will only help to get slots in the tracks in n.j. just be patient. the fat man just hasn't recieved his goody bag yet.

What would you do regarding Atlantic City if you were the governor? Keep in mind the amount of jobs that are involved with the hotels/casinos.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

What would you do regarding Atlantic City if you were the governor? Keep in mind the amount of jobs that are involved with the hotels/casinos.

The problem is that pouring money into AC is a losing bet and everyone seems to know this (probably including the Gov). There just isnt much reason to go there anymore and the setup they have there spends far too much infrastructurewise versus the competition. Obviously politicians have different outlooks on things than we do but AC is basically dead unless they radically change something.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Another casino isnt the answer..its just another place to rob people.

Of course it is the answer. You need to have a casino where the people are and the people aren't in AC anymore. If the tracks are a partner on the thing and are allowed to do things the right way (obviously no guarantee of this) then the thing could eventually thrive. But the state wants to take from racing not give and realistically there is no chance that a state handout would be used any differently than it is now. The can would just be kicked down the road again.

[richard burch]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

What would you do regarding Atlantic City if you were the governor? Keep in mind the amount of jobs that are involved with the hotels/casinos.

i go to a.c. once or twice a year. every year it gets more hostile.

this summer i was yelled at and followed by several homeless junkies. they were actually screaming at me on the street to give them money and this was about 2 in the afternoon. that same week two people were shot and killed in a car jacking from trumps casino. what else do i need to say?

that doesn't happen at foxwoods or monticello.

going to the north end of the boardwalk at night is just plain scary. this has been a developing pattern over the years. people won't go to somewhere they feel there life is in danger. go 2 blocks off the boardwalk at night and you better be on your guard. if and when the revell casino opens that alone will put 2 or 3 smaller ones out of business.

they brought on their own demise. corruption has ruled since mobsters poured the foundations.

too many casinos with too many vacant tables and slots, too many empty floors of hotels that are barely even used anymore. too many homeless and hookers. (well lets keep the hookers)

solution: 2 maybe 3 casinos on the boardwalk and spread the slots to the racetracks so everyone in the state can gamble without fear of being assaulted. the state gets revenue and everyone will be better off.


happy holidays!