Two Punch euthanized at 28

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Wow. If you can't see the difference between a 2yo that bucks it's shins and one that is run intentionally with bucked shins, than you are either hopeless or disingenuous.

Spare me. Neither one of us knew the physical condition of the horse before any of its races. Jones was quoted as saying that he had a nagging shin issue that kept him from training the horse as strongly as he wanted. Some horses have to be "babied" to be able to run. Apollo was able to start 10 times that year following this ghastly deed of running (and winning by open lengths) the colt off a 5 month layoff.

So, let me get this straight. He starts off his career four for four, not all in state bred company, winds up 5 for 21, and that is just because he was running against open company? Yeah.

Yeah, is right. Wow, an early sprinting, state-bred 2yo that didn't train on? Read the f'n PPs. He went from Cal-bred 2yo stakes company to open, Graded company in a year that had Hansel, Dinard, Best Pal, Sea Cadet, Olympio, etc. and couldn't handle it. Then had to face older horses once he was a confirmed sprinter the rest of the year.

It's called not progressing with the rest of his crop.

In his fifth start, and I don't care what you say, Best Pal was a very nice 3yo, and Dinard? He was a freak, and he gave Dinard all he could handle.

This is the real story behind this. You're obsession Dinard. Ironic, of course, because talk about about a butcher job. You really like those quasi-unbeaten cripples that "would have been the best of all time if they could string two races together" types. Olympio gave Dinard all he could handle, too, in his start before the San Rafael. That CA crop had a ton of freaks that year, apparently.

I guess if Apollo just retired after the San Miguel or the San Rafael with a 4- for-4 or 4-for-5 record, he'd be someone's screenname.

DrugS had a great post on her last year where he showed the pps of some horse's first 5 starts and you'd have thought it was the Second Coming. Then he put up the rest of his record. It was Jolie's Halo.

Sometimes that don't pan out by no fault of the trainer.

He had numerous two and early three year olds that went one or two starts and done, while showing much promise. I can think of a few, but the names elude me right now.

Yep. I figured as much.

That's funny you say that. That's the one thing I respected about him, that he wasn't a ***** about shipping. I don't remember, however, him shipping his horses nearly as much as you are making that out to be.

Turkoman, By Land By Sea, Lakeway, Stalwars, Quiet American, Timebank, Good Command, Best Pal, Kostroma.

As soon as he was back to sprinting? He routed twice! He didn't beat Forest Glow in that 'world record' race as an early season 3yo.

He made his return to sprints on opening day at the Hollywood meet, got buried when he had to show some real sprint speed vs. quality foes. Later that meet he tied the world record in an allowance on the grass.

You also know as well as I do that the 5.5f turf world record was set about 72 times over that HP turf course in two years. Seeing as that was his only win past about January or so of his three year old season, I would not trump that as evidence that all was right with him.

Yeah, I guess you're right. It was broken by Pembroke, Classy Women, ie other stakes horses. Never mind that over the same course later that year he split the great Arizonian Answer Do and subsequent BC Sprint winner Cardmania.

But if you want to use his world record performance as evidence that he was a shell of his former self, whatever.

As for your comment about him being exposed from a class standpoint, that's nonsense. One, the Apollo that won the San Miguel would have beaten most sprinters in the country that day, as a freaking 2yo. The Sanford winner was in the race, don't forget. Formal Dinner, I thought, was underrated, and certainly was no Cal bred.

Great. Formal Dinner. What was he making, like his 15th start of the year in the San Miguel? Typical Lukas squeezing one more out. He also ran Tejano off a Hollywood Futurity win in the San Miguel. Formal Dinner was never more than Grade 3 calibur.

Next.

Also, he was not running in top company at all the last couple of years. Unless you count GGF as top flight racing.

He was 5 and 6 at that point. He never won a graded stakes, so why would he be running against top class horses? He was running at the ceiling he hit way back in his 4th start.

Ironically, you said he had his own way in the San Rafael, so I'm not really sure how he busted his gut.

I don't think he busted his gut, but you seem to think Jones derailed his career somehow. That would be the most likely race (against the best competition he ever faced and the best effort he ever put up). At any rate, Best Pal, IIRC, hounded him with an early bid down the backstretch. Having to face pressure from a real Grade 1 horse is no cakewalk.