Shirreffs says Zenyatta deserves '10 Horse of the Year

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

The connections of PE picked a 3 horse field with Gulch being the major competitor (not the best horse in the country) to take their single shot against boys.

These are the kinds of idiotic comments that I just love.

This comment implies that Personal Ensign's connection spent the year waiting for a major Grade 1 to have only two other entries and then slipped in at the least minute.

By the way, at 1 1/8 miles, Zenyatta wouldn't have had an easy time handling Gulch, and certainly wouldn't have done it on her 2010 form.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

This comment implies that Personal Ensign's connection spent the year waiting for a major Grade 1 to have only two other entries and then slipped in at the least minute.

That's exactly right.

They wanted to test her against males eventually and Gulch was a very good horse, but they also were selective about it. They could have picked a race they knew Alysheba, Ferndinand, Bet Twice, Lost Code etc.. would be in.

They could have gone in the Classic instead of the Distaff.

The difference between me and others is that I don't trash the connections of PE for avoiding the best males and choosing the Distaff when she was fit and ready to go for the Classic. I realize that many of the greatest mares never even tried older Grade 1 horses and others tried and got demolished.

Azeri tried - demolished
Bayakoa tried - demolished
Dance Smartly - successful but only in Canada
Go for Wand - never tried it.
Paseana - demolished
Sky Beauty - never tried it
Inside Information - never tried it
Heavenly Prize - tried once and was well beaten by Cigar & Wekiva Springs
Silver Bullet Lady - demolished in Belmont

[slotdirt]

Sweet Jesus. Has classhandicapper never watched a race ran before 1989 or one that wasn't run in North America?

Is Pedigree Ann trolling?

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Is Pedigree Ann trolling?

Now where I went to school, 'trolling' meant studying, as in trolls never saw the light of day since they were always at their desk or lab. ('Snaking' is what you did before exams to pass. Trolls did it for the love of it.) I have no idea how you are using the term.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

That's exactly right.

They wanted to test her against males eventually and Gulch was a very good horse, but they also were selective about it. They could have picked a race they knew Alysheba, Ferndinand, Bet Twice, Lost Code etc.. would be in.

They could have gone in the Classic instead of the Distaff.

The difference between me and others is that I don't trash the connections of PE for avoiding the best males and choosing the Distaff when she was fit and ready to go for the Classic. I realize that many of the greatest mares never even tried older Grade 1 horses and others tried and got demolished.

Azeri tried - demolished
Bayakoa tried - demolished
Dance Smartly - successful but only in Canada
Go for Wand - never tried it.
Paseana - demolished
Sky Beauty - never tried it
Inside Information - never tried it
Heavenly Prize - tried once and was well beaten by Cigar & Wekiva Springs
Silver Bullet Lady - demolished in Belmont

Actually ran a pretty good race considering that field. I know that was nowhere near as good as last years Classic field but running 5th beating the Derby, Preakness, Belmont, Travers etc. winners) in there was pretty impressive for a horse with nothing to prove.

[JerseyJ]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

That's exactly right.

They wanted to test her against males eventually and Gulch was a very good horse, but they also were selective about it. They could have picked a race they knew Alysheba, Ferndinand, Bet Twice, Lost Code etc.. would be in.

They could have gone in the Classic instead of the Distaff.

The difference between me and others is that I don't trash the connections of PE for avoiding the best males and choosing the Distaff when she was fit and ready to go for the Classic. I realize that many of the greatest mares never even tried older Grade 1 horses and others tried and got demolished.

Azeri tried - demolished
Bayakoa tried - demolished
Dance Smartly - successful but only in Canada
Go for Wand - never tried it.
Paseana - demolished
Sky Beauty - never tried it
Inside Information - never tried it
Heavenly Prize - tried once and was well beaten by Cigar & Wekiva Springs
Silver Bullet Lady - demolished in Belmont

There was no reason for the connections of Personal Ensign to choose the Classic, seeing the field that lined up in the starting gate for the 1988 Distaff, each of whom would have been tough for Zenyatta to run down. Winning Colors, Goodbye Halo, Sham Say, Classic Crown, Hail a Cab, Epitome, Willa on the Move, and Integra made up what could be considered the deepest field in the history of the Breeders Cup distaff so there was no real reason to run that year.

You say that Azeri got demolished in her run in 2004. She also faced Ghostzapper who was arguably the best horse we have seen in recent memory. Also faced Dubai World Cup winner Roses in May, BC Classic defending Champion Pleasantly Perfect, and she ran a pretty good race, mind you as a 6 year old. I would put money that Zenyatta wouldn't have finished any closer that year than Azeri did.

You act like Zenyatta did something amazing winning the Breeders Cup Classic over her favorite surface while getting a favorable setup over one of the weakest fields in recent memory in the race. Last year's classic featured decent turf/synthetic specialists such as Gio Ponti, Twice Over, Richard's Kid, Rip Van Winkle and such, and mediocre dirt runners or mediocre 3YOs like Colonel John, Awesome Gem, Mine that Bird, and Regal Ransom. The best dirt runner in the race at a clear disadvantage due to surface was Summer Bird, and the next best was probably Einstein, who as we all know was a neat horse, but hardly a standard for greatness. So that certainly wasn't in my estimation a strong field last year.

But should we expect anything different from someone who believes that Hystericalady was just as good on synthetics as she was on dirt...

[slotdirt]

Kind of tough to hold the whole "not facing boys" thing against Go for Wand when she freaking died on the track in November of her 3YO season.

[slotdirt]

Also, why did classhandicapper conveniently leave, say, Lady's Secret and Rachel Alexandra out of his argument, nevermind Goldikova, Zarkava, or Ouija Board? Was it because it would poke a slew o' holes in his/her argument?

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by JerseyJ

There was no reason for the connections of Personal Ensign to choose the Classic, seeing the field that lined up in the starting gate for the 1988 Distaff, each of whom would have been tough for Zenyatta to run down.

It's also worth mentioning her connections had two runners in the Classic, including the runnerup.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

It's also worth mentioning her connections had two runners in the Classic, including the runnerup.

You, shutup you!

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

That's exactly right.

They wanted to test her against males eventually and Gulch was a very good horse, but they also were selective about it. They could have picked a race they knew Alysheba, Ferndinand, Bet Twice, Lost Code etc.. would be in.

They could have gone in the Classic instead of the Distaff.

The difference between me and others is that I don't trash the connections of PE for avoiding the best males and choosing the Distaff when she was fit and ready to go for the Classic. I realize that many of the greatest mares never even tried older Grade 1 horses and others tried and got demolished.

Azeri tried - demolished
Bayakoa tried - demolished
Dance Smartly - successful but only in Canada
Go for Wand - never tried it.
Paseana - demolished
Sky Beauty - never tried it
Inside Information - never tried it
Heavenly Prize - tried once and was well beaten by Cigar & Wekiva Springs
Silver Bullet Lady - demolished in Belmont

Relaxing - finished a good third to John Henry
Susan's Girl - demolished
Typecast - won at 12f turf
Drumtop - won 7 stakes against top male turfers, including HoY Fort Marcy

[prudery]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Relaxing - finished a good third to John Henry
Susan's Girl - demolished
Typecast - won at 12f turf
Drumtop - won 7 stakes against top male turfers, including HoY Fort Marcy

Drumtop-all 15 hands and a bit, was a very tough little girl--the first horse I took to the races ...

Have we forgotten Shuvee winning the JCGC two years in a row ???

[blackthroatedwind]

And Waya beat the boys in the Man O War and Turf Classic.

What about All Along....she only won the Arc, Washington DC International, Canadian International, and Turf Classic in seven weeks.

How about Dahlia?

Surely Zenyatta was better than all of these. What a joke.

[prudery]

I was just going to add Waya, but this is a more common occurence on turf --like All Along, Pebbles, and Dahlia--and on dirt it happens more commonly in sprints or absolute routes .

Ta Wee, Safely Kept, XTra Heat, etc could do it going short .

My Juliet knocked off the brilliantly fast Bold Forbes in the Vosburgh, and managed to stretch it in the Michigan Mile and one eighth ..

We also forgot Lady's Secret who won in the more contentious mid range of distance.

All Along , Dahlia and Waya were turfers--though Waya won on dirt--surely the poster that put this out knows that the aforementioned horse does not run on turf .....

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by prudery

I was just going to add Waya, but this is a more common occurence on turf --like All Along, Pebbles, and Dahlia--and on dirt it happens more commonly in sprints or absolute routes .

Ta Wee, Safely Kept, XTra Heat, etc could do it going short .

My Juliet knocked off the brilliantly fast Bold Forbes in the Vosburgh, and managed to stretch it in the Michigan Mile and one eighth ..

We also forgot Lady's Secret who won in the more contentious mid range of distance.

All Along , Dahlia and Waya were turfers--though Waya won on dirt--surely the poster that put this out knows that the aforementioned horse does not run on turf .....

Good call on My Juliet. Loved her.

It's actually more accurate to compare Zenyatta to turf horses at this point....at least in this manner.