10/8 (KEE): Phoenix S. (G3), Darley Alcibiades S. (G1)

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

And one of the horses from the Alcibiades will be a Grade 1 winner.

The Alcibiades has accumulated quite the illustrious history since being moved to synthetics. Its winners include:

2006 - The maiden Bel Air Beauty, who went 1-7 the rest of her career and later picked up a win in the Valley View.

2007 - The maiden Country Star, who went on to win the Hollywood Starlet but needed a drop in class to allowance company to get her only win in a 3YO campaign that was tremendously disappointing.

2008 - Dream Empress, who went 0-7 afterwards with a 3rd place finish her best performance. But hey, McPeek was going to run her at Ascot!

2009 - Negligee, who effectively ruined the chances of Biofuel in the BC Juv Fillies and came back for a 3YO season which has been highlighted by...absolutely nothing. She's 0-4.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

The Alcibiades has accumulated quite the illustrious history since being moved to synthetics. Its winners include:

2006 - The maiden Bel Air Beauty, who went 1-7 the rest of her career and later picked up a win in the Valley View.

2007 - The maiden Country Star, who went on to win the Hollywood Starlet but needed a drop in class to allowance company to get her only win in a 3YO campaign that was tremendously disappointing.

2008 - Dream Empress, who went 0-7 afterwards with a 3rd place finish her best performance. But hey, McPeek was going to run her at Ascot!

2009 - Negligee, who effectively ruined the chances of Biofuel in the BC Juv Fillies and came back for a 3YO season which has been highlighted by...absolutely nothing. She's 0-4.

This race could be Exhibit A in what's wrong with the Graded Stakes system. In the last ten years, only Runway Model and Take Charge Lady won the Alcibiades and went on to become fillies of note.

[Linny]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

This race could be Exhibit A in what's wrong with the Graded Stakes system. In the last ten years, only Runway Model and Take Charge Lady won the Alcibiades and went on to become fillies of note.

KEE has been the beneficiary of "grade creep" for years. Remember when the Oak Tree Mile was sending out BC winner/runners-up in droves and the Shadwell Mile got an upgrade?

So few barns run their serious horses before September of their 2yo season (and when they do run it's very infrequent) that we should look at the Euro model of only calling late season destination races G1.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Linny

KEE has been the beneficiary of "grade creep" for years. Remember when the Oak Tree Mile was sending out BC winner/runners-up in droves and the Shadwell Mile got an upgrade?

So few barns run their serious horses before September of their 2yo season (and when they do run it's very infrequent) that we should look at the Euro model of only calling late season destination races G1.

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks this. There are several races at KEE that deserve to be downgraded that haven't been. Alcibiades included.

[chucklestheclown]

Originally Posted by philcski

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks this. There are several races at KEE that deserve to be downgraded that haven't been. Alcibiades included.

You don't like the 4?

[Dahoss]

I'm probably reaching a lot here, but I'm going to bet a few dollars on Forest Legend in the Alcibiades. Before her win last out, Vicki Oliver was just 2 for 45 with firsters over the last five years and 1 for 18 with 2 year old firsters.

I guess that explains why she went off at those odds last time, because she is really bred well for the grass. That isn't a redboard, I didn't bet her, but her dam could really run and she's a half to recent Ballston Spa runnerup Silver Reunion. I think this one can run a bit.

There is decent amount of speed in here and this race has seen it's fair share of surprise winners, since it's been run on poly. Oliver is 33% in the money going turf to poly at Keeneland and Keeneland is her home track. I'm going to bet her to win and then underneath Harlan's Ruby, Jordy Y and Wonderlandbynight in exactas.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I'm probably reaching a lot here, but I'm going to bet a few dollars on Forest Legend in the Alcibiades. Before her win last out, Vicki Oliver was just 2 for 45 with firsters over the last five years and 1 for 18 with 2 year old firsters.

I guess that explains why she went off at those odds last time, because she is really bred well for the grass. That isn't a redboard, I didn't bet her, but her dam could really run and she's a half to recent Ballston Spa runnerup Silver Reunion. I think this one can run a bit.

There is decent amount of speed in here and this race has seen it's fair share of surprise winners, since it's been run on poly. Oliver is 33% in the money going turf to poly at Keeneland and Keeneland is her home track. I'm going to bet her to win and then underneath Harlan's Ruby, Jordy Y and Wonderlandbynight in exactas.

There is no such thing as reaching on synthetics, especially with 2yo's at Keeneland. Just about anything can happen and usually does. I say take a shot with her.

I kind of like Dos Lunas in here who will be a similar price. I loved her debut, very good synthetic pedigree and word is the work on Saturday was excellent. Cross out the Saratoga try and she fits well.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by philcski

There is no such thing as reaching on synthetics, especially with 2yo's at Keeneland. Just about anything can happen and usually does. I say take a shot with her.

I kind of like Dos Lunas in here who will be a similar price. I loved her debut, very good synthetic pedigree and word is the work on Saturday was excellent. Cross out the Saratoga try and she fits well.

I bet Dos Lunas last time at Woodbine because her race two back was huge I thought. But what kind of odds are you expecting? I'll be shocked if she isn't a lot shorter than Forest Legend oddswise.

Originally Posted by philcski

There is no such thing as reaching on synthetics, especially with 2yo's at Keeneland. Just about anything can happen and usually does. I say take a shot with her.

I kind of like Dos Lunas in here who will be a similar price. I loved her debut, very good synthetic pedigree and word is the work on Saturday was excellent. Cross out the Saratoga try and she fits well.

I like Dos Lunas as well but only at 8-1 or greater.

[chucklestheclown]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

The Alcibiades has accumulated quite the illustrious history since being moved to synthetics. Its winners include:

2006 - The maiden Bel Air Beauty, who went 1-7 the rest of her career and later picked up a win in the Valley View.

2007 - The maiden Country Star, who went on to win the Hollywood Starlet but needed a drop in class to allowance company to get her only win in a 3YO campaign that was tremendously disappointing.

2008 - Dream Empress, who went 0-7 afterwards with a 3rd place finish her best performance. But hey, McPeek was going to run her at Ascot!

2009 - Negligee, who effectively ruined the chances of Biofuel in the BC Juv Fillies and came back for a 3YO season which has been highlighted by...absolutely nothing. She's 0-4.

Wow...4 years.Country Star was a very nice filly who had issues, Negligee just has a shitty trainer.