Brox chokin' again

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

One of the most remarkable things that Mo Rivera has accomplished was to be managed by Joe Torre for all those years and get by with only a few minor injuries. Broxton pitched on Wednesday, thursday, was warming up on Friday but wasnt needed, pitched again on Saturday and once again on Sunday.

Sure it was Broxton that was giving up the hits but he was overworked that week and should nopt have been left out there to throw almost 50 pitches. The managers job is to put the right people in the right situation. Winning an interleague game at this point in the season shouldnt be so important that you risk blowing out your closers arm and secondarily cause him and the other pitchers in the bullpen to lose confidence. Coming into the inning it wasn't even a save situation. And Scuds please tell me what other closer is/was available again?

the guy is good , very good chuck , but he ain't rivera and no one else is

joe ain't a miracle worker , when you have the top gun in the 9th inning coming in for you , you are going to look like a genius on the bench

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by gales0678

the guy is good , very good chuck , but he ain't rivera and no one else is

joe ain't a miracle worker , when you have the top gun in the 9th inning coming in for you , you are going to look like a genius on the bench

Joe is a bullpen killer. Always has been. Ask Scott Proctor.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Joe is a bullpen killer. Always has been. Ask Scott Proctor.

Mariano is the only guy he went out of his way to protect.

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Joe is a bullpen killer. Always has been. Ask Scott Proctor.

and you can ask mendoza , lloyd, and stanton as well and get different answers chuck

he did a great job between '96 and '01 after that it got harder , starting pitching wasn't as strong in the latter torre years mr simon

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by gales0678

and you can ask mendoza , lloyd, and stanton as well and get different answers chuck

he did a great job between '96 and '01 after that it got harder , starting pitching wasn't as strong in the latter torre years mr simon

Give me a break. What about Jeff Nelson, Steve Karsay, Steve Bedrosian, Mike Perez, Paul Quantrill, Tom Gordon, Tanyon Sturtze, etc.?
http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/blog?...26id%3d4272262

http://bronxbanter.baseballtoaster.c...es/178976.html
This is a teriffic "breakdown" of the history of joe Torre ruining and abusing bullpens. And this was written before Scott Proctor.

Defending Torre where the bullpen is concerned is sheer folly

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Give me a break. What about Jeff Nelson, Steve Karsay, Steve Bedrosian, Mike Perez, Paul Quantrill, Tom Gordon, Tanyon Sturtze, etc.?
http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/blog?...26id%3d4272262

http://bronxbanter.baseballtoaster.c...es/178976.html
This is a teriffic "breakdown" of the history of joe Torre ruining and abusing bullpens. And this was written before Scott Proctor.

Defending Torre where the bullpen is concerned is sheer folly

chuck , between '96 and '01 in key situations tell me where torre blew it

i just don't get it , the bullpen was the reason why they won from 96 - 01

the starting pitching while very good were matched by other teams , it was all about the bullpen and not just rivera that the yanks won those 4 titles

as the starting pitching got worse later on in the torre years , yeah the bullpen got worse

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by gales0678

chuck , between '96 and '01 in key situations tell me where torre blew it

i just don't get it , the bullpen was the reason why they won from 96 - 01

the starting pitching while very good were matched by other teams , it was all about the bullpen and not just rivera that the yanks won those 4 titles

as the starting pitching got worse later on in the torre years , yeah the bullpen got worse

marty the guy has a 25 year track record of blowing up pitchers. Wettleand didnt blow up because he left NY was soon out of baseball. Lloyd was never effective after leaving NY. Mendoza was never any good, Nelson had 2 years of torre abuse then had 2 years of arm trouble. Mariano is about the only guy to ever survive multiple years of Torre but that guy is simply on another level, hence my comment about the how amazing it was he survived.

You are just missing the point. It isnt that the bullpens didnt perform in the short term (seriously how can a pen with Rivera as a setup guy go too wrong) but but that he consistently blows out guys by overusing them. Take Proctor for instance. In back to back years he pitched 83 games. That's half of a teams games(166 out of 324)! Basically he pitched every other game. Plus he warmed up for every appearance and most likely also warmed up on other occasions where he did not actually come into the games. Read the links. This is hardly even debatable as the evidence is overwhelming. He was doing it prior to managing the Yankees and is still doing it now. He is doing it with Broxton (last week Broxton threw more pitches than the starters), he is doing it with Troncoso (82 innings last year after 38 the prior year and his era has gone from 2.72 to 5.45 this year) and he is doing it with belisario who has also regressed after being ridden too hard last year. I know that he has 2 guys in the pen that are handled with kid gloves (Sherill and Kuo-who also broke down again after too many innings in 2008) but his pattern has been the same since he was in St Louis before he was considered a good manager. He is a very good manager who handles the starters well but like everyone else he has weaknesses and the bullpen is his. If after reading the links and seeing how he handled Broxton last week you still disagree then there probably isnt much I can do to convince you outside of someones arm falling off like Zumaya's did the other day.

[MaTH716]

He really did some nunber on Quantrill as well.

[Crown@club]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Of course people that are fans of other teams are gunna say Brox is great. They know, if they ever really need to win a pressure game, they can get it off him. Any objective person would have to note that the guy is useless in big games. The only exception is during the divisional series (when the Dodgers were big underdogs.)

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

To hell he ain't. You got a tumor or something? He's single-handedly lost the pivotal game 4 in the NLCS 2 years in a row (not once.) He just blew a game that they had a 4 run lead in. Yankee Fans infested Dodger Stadium. That was a playoff atmosphere that night. We all know it, but only a few will admit it. He blew that game because it was intense. He's a weak person. I'll go to the post with Valverde. I doubt he had the run support that Broxton has pssd away. I certainly do know what's gunna happen if we rely on Brox to close in the post. You don't have to be brilliant to figure that out. Come on, would you really be sticking up for this choking cow if it wasn't me who despises him? We are gunna bet on this. If the Dodgers make it to the post(big if,) then we'll vote on this fatboy's performance in the post. If you really believe this stuff, back it up. I would of won this bet the last 2 years, but you've again tried to couch together some angle. I recognize that scared bitch I saw on Sunday Night. She ain't changed her insides.

You're saying he chokes under pressure, but YOU wrote an exception. So even by your admission he has handled the pressure. WTF?

Cannon's blog posting is spot on!!!