How many top-flight deep closers …

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

Comparing to Cigar and Citation is not nearly as hilarious as your comparing her to Pepper's Pride. I must have missed where Pepper's Pride won the Breeder's Cup Classic.

I was and am a huge Cigar fan. I'm looking at a signed picture of him winning the '95 Woodward over my desk. But he ran during a weak period for older horses. Open company, yes. But pretty weak open company.

I'm also not blind to the over-careful handling of Zenyatta's schedule. But they did announce far in advance that she'd be at the Apple Blossom this year. And she's targeting another run in the Classic. Do I wish they'd chosen a more challenging race for her next outing? Absolutely. But if she stays healthy and keeps that BC Classic date, I can forgive them for the kid gloves treatment.

Personal Ensign is still spoken of with reverence. Yet she never raced against males. At a minimum, Zenyatta will be deservedly remembered as one of the great mares of American racing.


--Dunbar

She won the Whitney against males. and she beat up on MUCH better horses, male or female.

[Revidere]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

She won the Whitney against males. and she beat up on MUCH better horses, male or female.

Gulch (out of his depth at 1 1/8) and King's Swan. She didn't exactly face Alysheba and that crew.

The females she defeated were top shelf.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Revidere

Gulch (out of his depth at 1 1/8) and King's Swan. She didn't exactly face Alysheba and that crew.

The females she defeated were top shelf.

true, but who exactly did Zenyatta face last year in the BC that would be better than the Whitney crew?

The females PE faces were in a different league than what Z or RA for that matter has faced. Winning Colors is better than all the horses Z and RA have beaten.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

true, but who exactly did Zenyatta face last year in the BC that would be better than the Whitney crew?

The females PE faces were in a different league than what Z or RA for that matter has faced. Winning Colors is better than all the horses Z and RA have beaten.

She beat Gio Ponti on his preferred surface, don't ya know?

[Revidere]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

She beat Gio Ponti on his preferred surface, don't ya know?

Still making me live that one down? And I thought the Ghostzapper pic smoothed that one over.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Revidere

Still making me live that one down? And I thought the Ghostzapper pic smoothed that one over.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

true, but who exactly did Zenyatta face last year in the BC that would be better than the Whitney crew?

The females PE faces were in a different league than what Z or RA for that matter has faced. Winning Colors is better than all the horses Z and RA have beaten.

Who she beat in the BC is irrelevant though cause it was on synthetic. Winning as a deep closer on the dirt with regularity is tough. On turf and synthetics it is common. On dirt she has beat nothing but Ginger Punch who ran so poorly that day she was beaten by Brownie Points.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Revidere

Gulch (out of his depth at 1 1/8) and King's Swan. She didn't exactly face Alysheba and that crew.

The females she defeated were top shelf.

Gulch was out of his depth at 1 1/8 miles? He did beat Gone West in the Wood.


And, please, a little respect for the mighty Swan.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

She won the Whitney against males. and she beat up on MUCH better horses, male or female.

I should have checked my apparently poor memory. I'm sorry about the mistake.

Many here are assuming Quality Road will demolish Zenyatta if they both make it to the BC. Yet there's been no discussion from the Zenyatta camp about maybe running in the Distaff. They've been unusually direct that their only goal is the Classic.

I doubt Personal Ensign's connections even considered running her in the Classic that year, not against that level of horse. They picked the weaker race* to keep her undefeated streak alive.

--Dunbar

* yes, both Winning Colors and Goodbye Halo were very nice fillies. But Winning Colors had just finished 4th of 5 in the Spinster in her previous race, and she won just 2 of 7 thereafter.

I'm certainly not knocking Personal Ensign. I consider myself lucky to have been at that BC. But to call Personal Ensign "great" while dismissing what Zenyatta has achieved doesn't make sense to me.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

I should have checked my apparently poor memory. I'm sorry about the mistake.

Many here are assuming Quality Road will demolish Zenyatta if they both make it to the BC. Yet there's been no discussion from the Zenyatta camp about maybe running in the Distaff. They've been unusually direct that their only goal is the Classic.

I doubt Personal Ensign's connections even considered running her in the Classic that year, not against that level of horse. They picked the weaker race* to keep her undefeated streak alive.

--Dunbar

* yes, both Winning Colors and Goodbye Halo were very nice fillies. But Winning Colors had just finished 4th of 5 in the Spinster in her previous race, and she won just 2 of 7 thereafter.

I'm certainly not knocking Personal Ensign. I consider myself lucky to have been at that BC. But to call Personal Ensign "great" while dismissing what Zenyatta has achieved doesn't make sense to me.

I'm sure the Zenyatta camp realizes it is about 50% Quality Road will even be in the BC, there is still a long way to go and the horse has stallion value so will be retired if anything goes wrong.

[Smooth Operator]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

Many here are assuming Quality Road will demolish Zenyatta if they both make it to the BC.

The QR hype will only get stronger in the coming weeks

Some blowhard over at TC keeps saying that he's as good as GZ. lol

Could you see GZ only a couple lengths clear of a horse like MM at the finish of the Met??? Uh, don't think so

Hell, MtB and RA were beating that colt last year.


Granted, QR will have at least one huge advantage over Z (the fact that he's a 4yo male and she a 6yo female) if they both can make it to this year's BCC … but there's still legit questions about his ability to get the classic distance against a strong field.