SUN: Racing's media makeover paying off

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

AC is broke b/c gambling is available everywhere. Pocono, Foxwoods indian casinos all over....Just more of a reason for racing to make itself a whales first option. Lowering WPS to 10% has to happen as well. Good luck trying to convince people of this.

AC was broke long before that. The "whale" mentality is over Randall. That mentality is very 30 years ago. Look at Las Vegas if you want to see what Im talking about. I'm not saying a good player doesnt still get comped. My point is that the days of Steve Wynn having a shadow creek exclusively for whales at Mirage are OVER and they aren't coming back.

Where are casinos profits coming from? Do you really think its from whales? If you do, you really need to do some research. Harrah's has broken it down to a science. Why do you think every time you go back, there are more and more slot machines for less and less money (min play)? What about shops? The amount of money they spend in ancillary activities partially makes up for the difference. The vig they get from the dumber players makes up for part even if it is a fraction. Lastly, the rooms are filled with paying customers.

The current economy will not support that whale. Regardless of how loyal you can make a whale player, they still have far too many other options to keep your casino afloat. So how do they stay in business? las Vegas has this incredible way of staying ahead of the curve and reinventing itself. They change their product and they change their target market.

The new thing in Vegas right now is Non gaming hotels. Think about it- NON GAMING HOTELS in the middle of the strip no less! MGM bet 13 billion on city center and there is all of one casino in the whole place and it isnt very big. Go figure-Vegas, created as a gambling town, is actually making money on non-gaming ventures. What if you proposed this idea 20 years ago? People would have laughed. Some genius, namely Kirkorian, saw the forest through the trees. And you know what? 50 years from now, the rest of the strip will look a lot like the new City Center. Gaming will always be a part of the town but it won't be what the town is about.

Horse racing needs that type of vision.

[Antitrust32]

We'll see what happens at Woodbine. They are the business model everyone in racing should live by.

I was going to say lets see what happens at Gulfstream.. but Magna is hopeless.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

We'll see what happens at Woodbine. They are the business model everyone in racing should live by.

I was going to say lets see what happens at Gulfstream.. but Magna is hopeless.

Venue is a part of it. Why did they install lights at Churchill downs? Hmmmmmmm. Racing is going to be a part of an entertainment package. It will attract more people. So who cares if most of the people that come initially won't bet? Is that somehow better than the empty stands on a thursday afternoon where lone golf claps are heard for a mile?

What if instead of 6000 people on a saturday, you get 30k? Does anybody really think that the extra 24k won't create SOME handle? Does anybody really think they won't eat, drink and buy souveniers? Will they pay for premium seats? All of this is revenue.

Stronach's ideas for gulfstream were on the money. The planning and execution just stunk.

[Antitrust32]

as long as they eat carolina bbq Its all good.

Woodbine has by far the best venue out there.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Venue is a part of it. Why did they install lights at Churchill downs? Hmmmmmmm. Racing is going to be a part of an entertainment package. It will attract more people. So who cares if most of the people that come initially won't bet? Is that somehow better than the empty stands on a thursday afternoon where lone golf claps are heard for a mile?

What if instead of 6000 people on a saturday, you get 30k? Does anybody really think that the extra 24k won't create SOME handle? Does anybody really think they won't eat, drink and buy souveniers? Will they pay for premium seats? All of this is revenue.

Stronach's ideas for gulfstream were on the money. The planning and execution just stunk.

You are delusional to think that horseracing on a regular basis can market itself into 30000 fans. Honestly horseracing is pretty boring if you arent betting or have some sort of rooting interest.

And all of the fantasy revenue you just created goes directly into the pocket of the track, it doesnt help the grow the racing program or do a thing for those that actually do gamble except make things less conveinent.

Stronachs ideas for Gulfstream were ridiclous from the standpoint of the sport of horseracing. Perhaps for the bottom line of Magna they were great ideas but the idea that people are going to go to a mall, wander over to the track and become horseracing players is crazy.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You are delusional to think that horseracing on a regular basis can market itself into 30000 fans. Honestly horseracing is pretty boring if you arent betting or have some sort of rooting interest.

And all of the fantasy revenue you just created goes directly into the pocket of the track, it doesnt help the grow the racing program or do a thing for those that actually do gamble except make things less conveinent.

Stronachs ideas for Gulfstream were ridiclous from the standpoint of the sport of horseracing. Perhaps for the bottom line of Magna they were great ideas but the idea that people are going to go to a mall, wander over to the track and become horseracing players is crazy.

Kill a third of the tracks and dates!

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Kill a third of the tracks and dates!

Biggest red herring out there. If you eliminate Thistledown, River Downs, Mountaineer, presque isle, etc how does that help Belmont and Santa Anita? it is like saying that if MLB got rid of rookie league and single A leagues, MLB would be more popular. The problem isnt and never has been the size or scope of the sport. On the contrary according to many in this thread the 'exposure' to horseracing leads to a fever that the exposed masses catch which makes them become horseplayers.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Biggest red herring out there. If you eliminate Thistledown, River Downs, Mountaineer, presque isle, etc how does that help Belmont and Santa Anita? it is like saying that if MLB got rid of rookie league and single A leagues, MLB would be more popular. The problem isnt and never has been the size or scope of the sport. On the contrary according to many in this thread the 'exposure' to horseracing leads to a fever that the exposed masses catch which makes them become horseplayers.

It makes a huge difference..Maybe not immediately but these horses will ultimately not be raced and the industry will contract to a sustainable level. If each of those tracks have 50 horses that could be raced at a real track that is 300 head racing in a sustainable racing environment. Less trainer, less grooms, less dates, less of everything that shouldnt be.

[freddymo]

Let's get the nails in the coffin already..We need slots in KY. NY. NJ(tracks) Va. Ga.(for the new track) then racing will finally get what it richly deserves!!

Mountaineer's owner shows loss
By Matt Hegarty
MTR Gaming Group Inc., the owner of Mountaineer racetrack and casino and Presque Isle Downs, had a loss of $3.1 million in the first quarter of 2010, according to financial statements released on Monday, on a sharp decline in revenue compared with the first quarter of last year.

Revenue for the quarter was $91.9 million, down 8.6 percent from revenue of $100.6 million in the first quarter of last year. In a release, officials for the company cited severe winter weather in 2010 and the effects of the recession for the decline. Last year in the first quarter, MTR Gaming had a profit of $800,000.

Both Mountaineer in West Virginia and Presque Isle Downs in Pennsylvania derive the vast amount of their revenue from casino operations. For the quarter, revenue from parimutuel operations at the tracks was $1.3 million, compared with $2 million in the quarter last year.

Mountaineer trimmed its schedule this year, eliminating live racing in January and February.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You are delusional to think that horseracing on a regular basis can market itself into 30000 fans. Honestly horseracing is pretty boring if you arent betting or have some sort of rooting interest.

And all of the fantasy revenue you just created goes directly into the pocket of the track, it doesnt help the grow the racing program or do a thing for those that actually do gamble except make things less conveinent.

Stronachs ideas for Gulfstream were ridiclous from the standpoint of the sport of horseracing. Perhaps for the bottom line of Magna they were great ideas but the idea that people are going to go to a mall, wander over to the track and become horseracing players is crazy.

Gulfstream has racing dates from the beginning of January until the end of april. It sits vacant for basically two thirds of the year. How is this economical if racing is the basis for all of its revenue? That sounds like a pretty poor business model to me. If I opened a restaurant, how am I going to make money if I'm closed two third of the year and when I'm open, I only fill 10% of my tables?????

Remember now, I still have to pay taxes on my swath of South florida real estate. I have to maintain it as well during those off months. How is this economically feasible?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Gulfstream has racing dates from the beginning of January until the end of april. It sits vacant for basically two thirds of the year. How is this economical if racing is the basis for all of its revenue? That sounds like a pretty poor business model to me. If I opened a restaurant, how am I going to make money if I'm closed two third of the year and when I'm open, I only fill 10% of my tables?????

Remember now, I still have to pay taxes on my swath of South florida real estate. I have to maintain it as well during those off months. How is this economically feasible?

Again how does it help the racing product? They have a casino and restaurants within the racetrack that are open year round as well as simulcasting, and those things feed money into the racing product.

How is it economically feasible? You keep using projects that are bleeding money as an example of your vision of the future.

The real problem with Franks vision of Gulfstream other than him refusing to listen to anyone about anything is that the area didn't need more retail shops or restaurants, hence the place being empty. Everything sounds great in theory but the reality of the situation is that he is serving what is already overserviced EXCEPT for the racing product.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Again how does it help the racing product? They have a casino and restaurants within the racetrack that are open year round as well as simulcasting, and those things feed money into the racing product.

How is it economically feasible? You keep using projects that are bleeding money as an example of your vision of the future.

The real problem with Franks vision of Gulfstream other than him refusing to listen to anyone about anything is that the area didn't need more retail shops or restaurants, hence the place being empty. Everything sounds great in theory but the reality of the situation is that he is serving what is already overserviced EXCEPT for the racing product.

Ahh the shortsighted. Anything entertainment related is doing swimmingly right now isnt it? Besides that, you support my point. Without the other streams of revenue, racing could not survive and going forward more revenue streams need to be created.

I didnt say that Gulfstream was great. I said the idea was great and I believe that he was on the right track its just the planning and execution stunk.

You tell me Chuck how Charlestown thrives? Is that racing product any good? Do you get better odds at the Borgata casino than you do at Trump? Are the slots looser there?

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Venue is a part of it. Why did they install lights at Churchill downs? Hmmmmmmm. Racing is going to be a part of an entertainment package. It will attract more people. So who cares if most of the people that come initially won't bet? Is that somehow better than the empty stands on a thursday afternoon where lone golf claps are heard for a mile?

What if instead of 6000 people on a saturday, you get 30k? Does anybody really think that the extra 24k won't create SOME handle? Does anybody really think they won't eat, drink and buy souveniers? Will they pay for premium seats? All of this is revenue.

Stronach's ideas for gulfstream were on the money. The planning and execution just stunk.

Great posts today!

I'm looking forward to checking the City Center out this fall. It's a big improvement over the boardwalk. Sheesh that place smelled like piss, cigs, and ass.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

I'm looking forward to checking the City Center out this fall. It's a big improvement over the boardwalk. Sheesh that place smelled like piss, cigs, and ass.

Plenty of rooms available

I think some of you would argue with a mirror. Sheesh.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

AC was broke long before that. The "whale" mentality is over Randall. That mentality is very 30 years ago. Look at Las Vegas if you want to see what Im talking about. I'm not saying a good player doesnt still get comped. My point is that the days of Steve Wynn having a shadow creek exclusively for whales at Mirage are OVER and they aren't coming back.

Where are casinos profits coming from? Do you really think its from whales? If you do, you really need to do some research. Harrah's has broken it down to a science. Why do you think every time you go back, there are more and more slot machines for less and less money (min play)? What about shops? The amount of money they spend in ancillary activities partially makes up for the difference. The vig they get from the dumber players makes up for part even if it is a fraction. Lastly, the rooms are filled with paying customers.

The current economy will not support that whale. Regardless of how loyal you can make a whale player, they still have far too many other options to keep your casino afloat. So how do they stay in business? las Vegas has this incredible way of staying ahead of the curve and reinventing itself. They change their product and they change their target market.

The new thing in Vegas right now is Non gaming hotels. Think about it- NON GAMING HOTELS in the middle of the strip no less! MGM bet 13 billion on city center and there is all of one casino in the whole place and it isnt very big. Go figure-Vegas, created as a gambling town, is actually making money on non-gaming ventures. What if you proposed this idea 20 years ago? People would have laughed. Some genius, namely Kirkorian, saw the forest through the trees. And you know what? 50 years from now, the rest of the strip will look a lot like the new City Center. Gaming will always be a part of the town but it won't be what the town is about.

Horse racing needs that type of vision.

The City Center is a black hole

http://www.gamblingonlinemagazine.co...articleID=2266

[Cannon Shell]

More cheery news from Vegas and its new found "makeover"

http://www.pokernews.com/news/2010/0...-news-8169.htm

[blackthroatedwind]

Shouldn't racetracks figure out how to give their current customers the kind of treatment they deserve before trying to solve the elusive goal of creating a plentitude of new fans?

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Shouldn't racetracks figure out how to give their current customers the kind of treatment they deserve before trying to solve the elusive goal of creating a plentitude of new fans?

A simple "I agree with Randall in this thread" would have sufficed.