Zenyatta v. Rail Trip??

[miraja2]

Although this thread is unfortunately becoming yet another RA-Zenyatta thread, I think the original poster raised an interesting point.
Personally I can't really blame the connections of Zenyatta if they decide they don't want to follow Quality Road and Rachel (and whomever else might emerge this year as a decent runner) all around the country the entire year. Perhaps they figure they have the best horse and so it isn't their job to make a big race happen, particularly after they did their part at Oaklawn earlier in the year.

That's all fine. But when there is a big (and historically significant) race IN SoCal, with a pretty darn good horse running in it, it strikes me as a different matter. They already know there isn't going to be any competition for her from fillies or mares on the synthetic. Everyone knows that. So why not run in the bigger race against the better competition? If they truly want her to be considered an all-time great, running in races like the HGC against a real horse sure seems like a better way to get that done than beating up on a couple of hopelessly overmatched allowance-types.

Not wanting to ship all over the place chasing the top horses in the entire country is one thing. Deciding not to seek out a race against a good horse on your own track is something different.

[letswastemoney]

Cigar's 1995 campaign included all these races. He didn't need to reserve his best race for one big one. He traveled all around the country and took on open company on dirt anywhere.

His only flaw was his disdain for turf surfaces.

Oaklawn Handicap
Gulfstream Park Handicap
Hollywood Gold Cup
Jockey Club Gold Cup
Pimlico Special
Breeders' Cup Classic
Donn Handicap
Massachusetts Handicap
Woodward Stakes

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by miraja2

Not wanting to ship all over the place chasing the top horses in the entire country is one thing. Deciding not to seek out a race against a good horse on your own track is something different.

The other horses aren't going to chase her to California because of the silly surface they are running on. Like it or not, no other big time racing outside of Keeneland's few weeks each year run on the stuff, and we all know they do it because they sell the stuff.

NYRA...no. Churchill...no. Gulfstream...no. Until Zenyatta beats talented horses on dirt, she'll just be a specialist on a surface that will most likely be gone in a decade.

[10 pnt move up]

I assume its already been stated publicly that they have no interest in running in the Vanity to get the 17th win and then running four weeks later in the Gold Cup? I don't see why that would be such a stretch, in fact it makes a lot of sense. Then they could take off two months and return at Oak Tree and start in the BC.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

The other horses aren't going to chase her to California because of the silly surface they are running on. Like it or not, no other big time racing outside of Keeneland's few weeks each year run on the stuff, and we all know they do it because they sell the stuff.

I understand your point, but I think you do have to give them some credit for their trip to Oaklawn this year. Hopefully she does run in the HGC following her next race, and then comes East to run in a big race. I'd love to see it, and if she does run on dirt against a really good dirt horse, I'll almost certainly be betting against her.
My point was simply that I can't really blame them for wanting to run in Cali for awhile, but IF they stay in Cali but choose not to go in the HGC, that's pretty weak.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by miraja2

I understand your point, but I think you do have to give them some credit for their trip to Oaklawn this year. Hopefully she does run in the HGC following her next race, and then comes East to run in a big race. I'd love to see it, and if she does run on dirt against a really good dirt horse, I'll almost certainly be betting against her.
My point was simply that I can't really blame them for wanting to run in Cali for awhile, but if they stay in Cali but choose not to go in the HGC, that's pretty weak.

Who are the really good 1 1/8th or beyond horses, the only one with any real ability is slated to run four times this year in Quality Road, who else?

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Who are the really good 1 1/8th or beyond horses, the only one with any real ability is slated to run four times this year in Quality Road, who else?

He's only slated to run in the Met Mile and the BC Classic?

He'll be in at least two of the following four preparing for the BCC: Suburban, Whitney, Woodward, Jockey Club Gold Cup.

NT

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

He's only slated to run in the Met Mile and the BC Classic?

He'll be in at least two of the following four preparing for the BCC: Suburban, Whitney, Woodward, Jockey Club Gold Cup.

NT

ok, 5 races then....answer the question, who is this horse I am waiting to bet on as I asked? Cause I dont see much of anything that can run long on dirt.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

ok, 5 races then....answer the question, who is this horse I am waiting to bet on as I asked? Cause I dont see much of anything that can run long on dirt.

Wait until some of the real handicap races start being run.

NT

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

ok, 5 races then....answer the question, who is this horse I am waiting to bet on as I asked? Cause I dont see much of anything that can run long on dirt.

I thought we've been through this....Quality Road has run twice this year ( the Hal's Hope and Donn ) and will run at least four more times this year ( Met, Whitney, Woodward and/or JCGC, and BC Classic ) assuming he stays sound. No, nobody is saying that is an abundance of races...but stop trying to make Zenyatta look less bad

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

ok, 5 races then....answer the question, who is this horse I am waiting to bet on as I asked? Cause I dont see much of anything that can run long on dirt.

What's wrong with Quality Road at 9f?

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Who are the really good 1 1/8th or beyond horses, the only one with any real ability is slated to run four times this year in Quality Road, who else?

There sure aren't very many, you're right about that.
Right now I would almost certainly bet on Quality Road and Rachel Alexandra in a dirt race against Zenyatta. Beyond that? Who knows. The 3yo crop sure doesn't look like much, but it is always possible that somebody in the crop (Ice Box? Super Saver? somebody else?) continues to improve and therefore turns into a legitimate 9f+ horse.

[knickslions2]

Originally Posted by miraja2

There sure aren't very many, you're right about that.
Right now I would almost certainly bet on Quality Road and Rachel Alexandra in a dirt race against Zenyatta. Beyond that? Who knows. The 3yo crop sure doesn't look like much, but it is always possible that somebody in the crop (Ice Box? Super Saver? somebody else?) continues to improve and therefore turns into a legitimate 9f+ horse.

Rachel is toast. Her last race last year cooked her. Can't believe people doubt a horse that has never lost. Don't care if she was running on glass. QR would be a good race but we may never see it

[rgustafson]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Who are the really good 1 1/8th or beyond horses, the only one with any real ability is slated to run four times this year in Quality Road, who else?

I believe that there is one other older horse besides Quality Road, who, if he stays healthy, could be a real threat at these longer distances. That horse is Battle Plan, also trained by Pletcher. Anyone know what race he is pointing to next?