I always thought Shaughnessy was an idiot but...

[dalakhani]

[quote=docicu3;640302][quote=Cannon Shell;640215]

Originally Posted by docicu3

The Heat are a lottery team with a superstar. If the Celtics are coasting then you better tell Doc Rivers who is playing Pierce and Rondo 40+ minutes a game.

Minutes so far in playoffs

Pierce 36.7 minutes
Allen 34.1 minutes
Garnett 35.3 minutes

James 40.5 minutes
Rondo 41.4 minutes

So not exactly as you said Chuck and yes I do think the C's coasted to exactly where they wanted to finish the regular season so they
1) maintained home court for a series and 2) got Cleveland early after that to minimize the number of games played before a max effort which they would need to challenge the Cavs......

Congrats on your previous post about LJ taking a 15 win team to the Eastern finals in 2006-2007 during the same year his own coaches went on record in amazement at how little he actually knew about the strategy of the NBA game.

He was of course a high school kid who missed playing at all at the college level so where would he learn the subtleties of the NBA game? Truth is even at this point he is a prolific scorer but remains an average midrange shooter who can jump through the roof with incredible show stopping end of quarter field goal range but is far from having excellent ball handling or passing skills. At least according to the NBA skills guru quoted below in this article.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...vin/index.html

He has more wow power than any player in the NBA game including Kobe who is a better shooter, so when LJ refines his fundamentals he will really have something but he's not there yet as his game is not polished like that of a great champion.

C's/Cavs should be a decent watch but it's not the mismatch your making it out to be.

First of all, the article was talking about a training session two years ago. Is it fair to say that maybe, just maybe, lebron has improved since? Maybe?

Secondly, in what bizarro world does lebron not have excellent passing skills as you say? He is one of the best passers in the league. He doesn't have to go out there like Kobe Bryant and decide he isn't going to shoot for an entire quarter to get his teammates involved. Its natural to lebron. He is a pure passer.

Doc, im not trying to insult you, but what "subtleties" is lebron missing? I watch him play all the time and I can't see one particular weakness. He doesn't really have a pet move but he really doesn't need one at this point.

Is there a better player in the league? Besides Michael Jordan, have you seen a better player in the last 30 years. Larry? Magic? Okay, you have an argument...maybe. Beyond that?

The whole thing about him not having a title is incredibly weak. If he is on that lakers team last year in place of Kobe, do they win a title? If he is on that Celtic team two years ago in place of Paul Pierce, does he win a title?

[Antitrust32]

Lebron is most definately an excellent passer. One of the best. When I saw him play in High School at the Palestra in Philly (what a gym!) the skill that stood out to me the most was his great passes. He makes his team mates better. And he's a darn good defender also. The whole package!

[horseofcourse]

LeBron James is a great, great passer who posseses phenomenal court vision...you can't even argue the opposite on that one. You can certainly argue he's not a great on ball defender. He tried to guard Rose at the end of game 3 and Rose actually abused him. Rose is pretty good though. He is far from a zero on defense however.

Cannon is 100 percent dead on in his assessment of taking the 2007 team to the finals...that would to me still be a greater accomplishment than if they win a title with this team. Sasha Pavlovic started on that team. Today he can't even break the Minnesota Timberwolves rotation. Daniel Gibson played big minutes on that team...he is a better player now and isn't even in the rotation. For God's sake, Eric Snow played big minutes on that team. Larry Hughes started at Point guard.

To say LeBron's game is not polished is pretty far out there.

In the end, however, I see no evidence that the Celtics can't play with them and win multiple games in the series. Cleveland's free throw shooting will cost them one game in the series. The Cavs are a better team though.

[docicu3]

Well I'm glad that's cleared up now.....

Lebron's in Pistol Pete's class as a passer....

Dribbles better than Cousy....

Shoots better than Jerry West or Bird....

Knows more about the game than Jackson and Auerbach...

Rebounds better than Russell....

Thanks for getting my mind back on track, LeBron's not hype he's just the best ever.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by docicu3

Well I'm glad that's cleared up now.....

Lebron's in Pistol Pete's class as a passer....

Dribbles better than Cousy....

Shoots better than Jerry West or Bird....

Knows more about the game than Jackson and Auerbach...

Rebounds better than Russell....

Thanks for getting my mind back on track, LeBron's not hype he's just the best ever.

Does he need to do all of those individual things as well as those guys to be a better player than any of those people that you named?

You said he doesnt have excellent passing skills. This is the first time that I have heard anyone say that but I disagree.

Is Lebron James a more dominant player than any of those players that you named? Russell is the the only one in the same realm.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Does he need to do all of those individual things as well as those guys to be a better player than any of those people that you named?

You said he doesnt have excellent passing skills. This is the first time that I have heard anyone say that but I disagree.

Is Lebron James a more dominant player than any of those players that you named? Russell is the the only one in the same realm.

I have to say.. that Bird guy was pretty darn good and dominant..

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I have to say.. that Bird guy was pretty darn good and dominant..

Bird was a great player. But could he do for a team what Lebron does? Bird, for all of his great play, was a defensive liability man to man. When the Celts played the lakers, Mchale guarded worthy-not bird.

Bird was lucky enough to have Mchale, Parish, DJ. Sure he made them better but what does he do with Lebron's supporting cast?

Your point is valid though and you could certainly argue it.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by docicu3

Lebron's in Pistol Pete's class as a passer....

You've got that well backwards....LeBron's played over 100 less games to this point than Pistol Pete in his career and has multiple hundreds more assists than Pete. Pete was a much better showman...but effective passer? nowhere near LeBron.

[docicu3]

"To say LeBron's game is not polished is pretty far out there."....


Guilty of being "pretty far out there"....

Talented and polished are completely different skill sets. James doesn't make anyone on the Cavs better than the talents they already possess. Rhondo completely outplayed James in the series while showing that his game is becoming more versatile or polished because his shot is becoming more dependable.

James makes his team uncomfortable when his shot isn't falling. AJ has never looked worse trying to guard KG while trying to figure out when he can push his own offense.

All I kept reading was how James and his deep talented bench was going to abuse Boston. Celts would be lucky to win a game. Seems the Celts were "lucky" 4 out of the 6 games played.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by docicu3

"To say LeBron's game is not polished is pretty far out there."....


Guilty of being "pretty far out there"....

Talented and polished are completely different skill sets. James doesn't make anyone on the Cavs better than the talents they already possess. Rhondo completely outplayed James in the series while showing that his game is becoming more versatile or polished because his shot is becoming more dependable.

James makes his team uncomfortable when his shot isn't falling. AJ has never looked worse trying to guard KG while trying to figure out when he can push his own offense.

All I kept reading was how James and his deep talented bench was going to abuse Boston. Celts would be lucky to win a game. Seems the Celts were "lucky" 4 out of the 6 games played.

I'm really sorry. I was very wrong on all things about LeBron James. I apologize. His jersey says "Cleveland". I want him to succeed while wearing that jersey. Why is that so bad? Warts and all his 7 years in Cleveland were the 7 best years consecutively in franchise history. They won playoff series' in 5 consecutive years....yes, FIVE. That may not sound like much to a fan of the god-like Boston Celtics but pre-LeBron the greatest franchise streak was 2 years. It turns out he is indeed not God. I'm not sure if I ever claimed that, but he single-handedly made one of the worst franchises in professional sports history relevant.

That is something. I'll defend anything I guess. Three years ago CC Sabathia was reviled in Cleveland because he came up woefully short in the postseason. He was the Cy Young winner but got outpitched by Beckett in game 1 and game 5 in the ALCS. Game 5 a potential clincher at home. He choked, I guess. Sound familiar? Next year traded and single-handedly pitched a woeful Brewer organization into the playoffs. Stunk in postseason yet again. Next year he is a champion and suddenly able to pitch in postseason. What happened?

I can't honestly defend what happened this series. I will state this. They won 42 playoff games in his time here.....7 years. The first 34 years of the franchise they won 28 playoff games total. I can defend that. He's done remarkable things on the court for this franchise. You make good points in your post...but to state Jamison couldn't play defense on Garnett because LeBron's jump shot wasn't falling does seem a bit out there too. So even in your bashings of him, you actually feed the myth of him. You feel his powers are so, so great, his jump shot success actually affects defensive abilities of his teammates.

( I also find it hilarious how no Boston fan on here has talked about the refs one single time after the last 3 games. How is that even possible? They suddenly found their groove or something? I talked about them facetiously a bit but nothing from Boston fans. Odd. Not odd, actually, just complete pansies. After game one it was all refs, after games 4, 5, and 6, it was nothing about the refs. Boston Celtic fans are complete and total pansies of the highest order. That you can take to the bank)

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by docicu3

"To say LeBron's game is not polished is pretty far out there."....


Guilty of being "pretty far out there"....

Talented and polished are completely different skill sets. James doesn't make anyone on the Cavs better than the talents they already possess. Rhondo completely outplayed James in the series while showing that his game is becoming more versatile or polished because his shot is becoming more dependable.

James makes his team uncomfortable when his shot isn't falling. AJ has never looked worse trying to guard KG while trying to figure out when he can push his own offense.

All I kept reading was how James and his deep talented bench was going to abuse Boston. Celts would be lucky to win a game. Seems the Celts were "lucky" 4 out of the 6 games played.

I do find it curious that Lebron was somehow supposed to make Jamison a better defender. Jamison is perhaps the worst defender in the league and that is putting it mildly. Would any player in NBA history save Bill Russell or Akeem in his better days have made him look any better?

Lebron could have played better last night and over the series. I have never seen him look worse over a course of a series but I think a good measure of credit has to go to Boston's defense and yes Joey, Doc's gameplan in stopping him. He was certainly rattled and the 9 turnovers were crushing.

Suddenly, people like that idiot Skip Bayless (the biggest idiot in all of sports media) are feeling somehow vindicated in whatever cheap swipes they took at him. The guy had a triple ****ing double. He had 19 rebounds. Is it his fault Jamison shoots 2-10 and can't guard the towel boy? The media was crying after the last game that he wasn't assertive enough and now he doesn't make his teammates better. Does Kobe Bryant "make his teammates better"? Give me a break. Kobe won last year because he is a great player and he had a good team around him not to mention a competent coach.

To the victor goes the spoils and Boston won. Their fans surely have the right to gloat especially after some of the comments that were made in this thread. No doubt, I would be doing the same thing. At the same time, this kid is getting killed because his team lost to an underrated and game champion. Its almost as if Boston fans are more excited about Lebron not succeeding than about their own team's accomplishment.

By the way, Boston starters Rondo, Allen and Pierce were a combined 6-24 outside of the paint last night. Pierce and Allen, the guys the superior Rondo was "making better", shot a combined 6-21 from the floor as a whole.

Congrats to Boston and its fans. They played an outstanding series and last night was an incredible defensive effort.

[horseofcourse]

Well, hopefully LeBron will leave so Varajao can become the 20 and 10 man he should be if that dang LeBron wasn't holding him back so much. You can tell watching his shooting form and ball handling skills what he could be if LeBron wasn't there.

[Antitrust32]

Varajao sucks so bad. the cavs could have won last night if that guy hadnt played. he's terrible and his hair sucks too. (uh oh I think NEbrady might get mad at me now)

Also Lebron just didnt have any "swag". He looked lost, definately wasnt dominant no matter what the stats say.

I'll take Orlando in 6 in the next series.. and Orlando over the Suns in the Championship.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by docicu3

"To say LeBron's game is not polished is pretty far out there."....


Guilty of being "pretty far out there"....

Talented and polished are completely different skill sets. James doesn't make anyone on the Cavs better than the talents they already possess. Rhondo completely outplayed James in the series while showing that his game is becoming more versatile or polished because his shot is becoming more dependable.

James makes his team uncomfortable when his shot isn't falling. AJ has never looked worse trying to guard KG while trying to figure out when he can push his own offense.

All I kept reading was how James and his deep talented bench was going to abuse Boston. Celts would be lucky to win a game. Seems the Celts were "lucky" 4 out of the 6 games played.

The Celtics winning doesnt make most of this nonsense true. Boston played much better than they have in 2 years. Not one player on Cleveland had a good series. It is really not that complicated.

[clyde]

Some day many of you will realize ,first, how unimportant all this really is and, second, what a phony James is.


That's how simple it is.

Originally Posted by clyde

Some day many of you will realize ,first, how unimportant all this really is and, second, what a phony James is.


That's how simple it is.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by clyde

Some day many of you will realize ,first, how unimportant all this really is and, second, what a phony James is.


That's how simple it is.

I really don't think he's phony. He's an ego-maniacal self important, self entitled professional athlete. He believes the world revolves around him and damn the rest of us. He is what he is. (and to be fair he's not PacMan Jones or Chris Henry or Michael Vick either....guess I'm a glass half full guy!). All I know is the Cavs were a better team since he joined them...that's my only investment. And he entertains when he plays, both when he plays good and bad. I wanted Albert Belle to hit home runs when he played for the Indians too. I'm pretty simplistic that way.

(clyde, are you telling me that LeBron's free agent decision really has no bearing on the world in general!! ) your education of us never ceases!