facepalm of the day

[OldDog]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

The seven, count 'em, seven Planned Parenthood clinics that do tissue donation do not make any profit off of fetal tissue donations. If anything, they take a loss on it. At best, they break even.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor...ly_making.html

So it's PP's loss leader? Taking them at their word, it's all good as long as PP doesn't profit? Okay.

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

There is no proof of PP doing what you say.

Which part?

Deborah Nucatola, MD, Senior Director of Medical Services, Planned
Parenthood Federation of America (“PP”)
-Two actors posing as Fetal Tissue Procurement Company (“Buyer”):
http://www.centerformedicalprogress....2514_final.pdf
Buyer: When we were talking saying the $30-$100 price range is per specimen
that were talking about, right?
PP: Per specimen. Yes.
Buyer: And what does per specimen mean for Planned Parenthood? Is that, you
guys consider that, a discrete sample.
PP: One case. One patient, and again, there’s different steps involved too right?
There’s who’s going to consent the patient to donate. It it’s staff, then that’s staff
time, that gets figured into it, as opposed to if there’s someone that’s there, then
it’s just flagging the interested or “eligible” patient and somebody else does the
work.


(Someone like a third party fetal tissue wholesaler?)

Buyer: Yeah. Or especially brain is where it’s actually a big issue, hemispheres
need to be intact, it’s a big deal with neural tissue and the progenitors, because
those are particularly fragile. If you’ve got that in the back of your mind, if you’re
aware of that, technically, how much of a difference can that actually make if you
know kind of what’s expected or what we need, versus—
PP: It makes a huge difference. I’d say a lot of people want liver. And for
that reason, most providers will do this case under ultrasound guidance,
so they’ll know where they’re putting their forceps. The kind of rate-limiting
step of the procedure is the calvarium, the head is basically the biggest
part. Most of the other stuff can come out intact. It’s very rare to have a
patient that doesn’t have enough dilation to evacuate all the other parts
intact.
Buyer: To bring the body cavity out intact and all that?
PP: Exactly. So then you’re just kind of cognizant of where you put your
graspers, you try to intentionally go above and below the thorax, so that,
you know, we’ve been very good at getting heart, lung, liver, because we
know that, so I’m not gonna crush that part, I’m going to basically crush
below, I’m gonna crush above, and I’m gonna see if I can get it all intact.
And with the calvarium, in general, some people will actually try to change
the presentation so that it’s not vertex, because when it’s vertex
presentation, you never have enough dilation at the beginning of the case,
unless you have real, huge amount of dilation to deliver an intact
calvarium. So if you do it starting from the breech presentation, there’s
dilation that happens as the case goes on, and often, the last, you can
evacuate an intact calvarium at the end. So I mean there are certainly steps
that can be taken to try to ensure—
Buyer: So they can convert to breach, for example, at the start of the—”
PP: Exactly, exactly. Under ultrasound guidance, they can just change the
presentation.

(like in partial birth abortion?)

Buyer: So yesterday was a clinic day. So for example, what did you
procure?
PP: You know I asked her at the beginning of the day what she wanted,
yesterday she wanted, she’s been asking, a lot of people want intact hearts
these days, they’re looking for specific nodes. AV nodes, yesterday I was
like wow, I didn’t even know, good for them. Yesterday was the first time
she said people wanted lungs. And then, like I said, always as many intact
livers as possible. People just want—
Buyer: Yeah, liver is huge right now.
PP: Some people want lower extremities too, which, that’s simple. That’s
easy. I don’t know what they’re doing with it, I guess if they want muscle.
Buyer: Yeah. A dime a dozen.
PP: Mhm.
Buyer: Yeah.
PP: You know, I think it’s good to have—so this is another consideration to
make, because when you do partner with a clinic, you’re probably partnering with
the manager, the owner, the director, you’re not so much having a relationship
with the providers, but I think it helps to have a relationship with the provider,
because if you do, you can have this conversation with them, and you can
say, this is what we’re looking for today, and they’re more apt to—
Buyer: Keep it in the back of their mind.
PP: Absolutely. Of course I want to help. I’d rather this actually get used for
something, so I think, as much as the patients, the providers absolutely want to
help.
Buyer: And so, if it’s something as simple as converting to breech that doesn’t
require a separate consent? Does that make the procedure take longer? Is that
another step for the provider?
PP: No, it’s just what you grab versus what comes out.