union rags

pucknut · #1 06-04-2012, 02:13 PM

can someone help me understand why some of the pundits are saying rags cant get the distance?
rags is supposedly a dual qualifer being out of dixie union and gone west what makes the 1 1/2 any more beyond his reach than the other major players
IHA, dullahan, or for that matter paynter

Honu · #2 06-04-2012, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pucknut

can someone help me understand why some of the pundits are saying rags cant get the distance?
rags is supposedly a dual qualifer being out of dixie union and gone west what makes the 1 1/2 any more beyond his reach than the other major players
IHA, dullahan, or for that matter paynter

I would like him better if they tried a set of blinkers on him, been thinking he has needed them since the BC.

RolloTomasi · #3 06-04-2012, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pucknut

can someone help me understand why some of the pundits are saying rags cant get the distance?
rags is supposedly a dual qualifer being out of dixie union and gone west what makes the 1 1/2 any more beyond his reach than the other major players
IHA, dullahan, or for that matter paynter

From a superficial scan of the pedigrees, Union Rags is by a stallion who bombed in his only attempt at a classic distance (unplaced in the '00 Travers). Likewise, his broodmare sire was demolished by Bet Twice and co. in the '87 Belmont.

I'll Have Another is by a Travers winner, with a broodmare sire who won multiple stakes at classic distances and has sired a BC Classic winner.

Dullahan is a half-brother to a Kentucky Derby winner who placed in both the Preakness and the Belmont.

Paynter is by a multiple winner at classic distances (including the BC Classic and Queen's Plate) out of a mare closely related to dual BC Classic winner Tiznow (who also won the Big Cap and Super Derby).

Of course, specifically for 12f, look no further than Optimizer, who is by champion English Channel, with a Belmont Stakes winning broodmare sire. Load up.

jms62 · #4 06-04-2012, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

From a superficial scan of the pedigrees, Union Rags is by a stallion who bombed in his only attempt at a classic distance (unplaced in the '00 Travers). Likewise, his broodmare sire was demolished by Bet Twice and co. in the '87 Belmont.

I'll Have Another is by a Travers winner, with a broodmare sire who won multiple stakes at classic distances and has sired a BC Classic winner.

Dullahan is a half-brother to a Kentucky Derby winner who placed in both the Preakness and the Belmont.

Paynter is by a multiple winner at classic distances (including the BC Classic and Queen's Plate) out of a mare closely related to dual BC Classic winner Tiznow (who also won the Big Cap and Super Derby).

Of course, specifically for 12f, look no further than Optimizer, who is by champion English Channel, with a Belmont Stakes winning broodmare sire. Load up.

Load up on Optimizer? That is a ballsy call. I respect that.

RolloTomasi · #5 06-04-2012, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jms62

Load up on Optimizer? That is a ballsy call. I respect that.

It was tongue-in-cheek really, but considering recent winners like D'Tara, Commendable, Jazil and Sarava, I wouldn't be quick to mock those who take a flyer on him.

Actually, now that I think about it, Commendable was by Gone West, so Union Rags just moved up on the pedigree chart.

jms62 · #6 06-04-2012, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

It was tongue-in-cheek really, but considering recent winners like D'Tara, Commendable, Jazil and Sarava, I wouldn't be quick to mock those who take a flyer on him.

Actually, now that I think about it, Commendable was by Gone West, so Union Rags just moved up on the pedigree chart.

Problem is he comes from too far back. Belmont Stakes favors stalkers

Arletta · #7 06-04-2012, 06:33 PM

Dicky Downey's Winning Belmont patterns since 1978.

http://www.thedowneyprofile.com/More...ce-1978.415830

Merlinsky · #8 06-04-2012, 08:12 PM

People pick horses after saying they had traffic trouble in their last outing, but what appears to be bad racing luck is sometimes a case of just them making their own trouble. Bad breaks aren't always a fluke, for instance. Sometimes when horses get a good trip, it's because they were good enough to make their own luck or overcome what would've been a problem for another horse. The ability to go through a hole vs get squeezed for example. Afleet Alex overcame bad luck through his agility and athleticism.

Zenyatta should've had problems with her size and running style when trying to overcome pace and traffic, but she (almost) always worked it out because she was nimble enough. I like Union Rags, but one reason I didn't pick him in the Derby was a nagging fear that he'd get himself in trouble. Obviously in a 20 horse field the opportunity to then get out of trouble is very unlikely. Presumably a 1 1/2 race would give more time to fix things, assuming he gets the distance, but I still want I'll Have Another to get it, and if he can't it doesn't look like it'll be from lack of ability, stamina, or fitness on his part.

RockHardTen1985 · #9 06-05-2012, 12:29 AM

I really am disapointed with myself. I'm totally buying into Union Rags. The power house work article is making me more comfortable. If he's not on or near lead then ill really be stunned.

Indian Charlie · #10 06-05-2012, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockTardHen1985

I really am disapointed with myself.

There may be hope for you yet.

RockHardTen1985 · #11 06-05-2012, 02:32 AM

Not likely.
I have lots of issues.

Danzig · #12 06-05-2012, 07:12 AM

someone should warn matz.

pucknut · #13 06-05-2012, 07:34 AM

ive bet against rags all year but i think this is his race to lose
he has a race over and the trail must have taken its toll on IHA
if he runs anything close to the juvenile color him gone
thast said his two yo campaign towers over anything on his 3yo resume
jockey change jr's home track and crowd the brief freshening i see shades of easy goer
i am using rags on top and will use IHA as a saver for my drink and food orders

RockHardTen1985 · #14 06-05-2012, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

someone should warn matz.

I can take it. Be clever at least. That crap above is so lame, not to mention 4yrs ago.

#15 06-05-2012, 07:53 AM

I was looking at my autographed Michael Matz pancake on head painting this morning.

The silence told me 3rd.

slotdirt · #16 06-05-2012, 08:00 AM

I think recent history shows that fresher horses run better at Belmont. I don't believe we've had a horse who ran in the Preakness win the Belmont since 2005. And before that, you have to go back to Point Given in 2001 to find a Belmont winner who even ran in the Preakness.

Thunder Gulch · #17 06-05-2012, 04:18 PM

I questioned Rags at 10f, so I'm firmly in the camp that believes those bloodlines don't favor him getting better going 12f.

Danzig · #18 06-05-2012, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

I can take it. Be clever at least. That crap above is so lame, not to mention 4yrs ago.

speaking of four years ago, is that when you had the bet vs dahoss that you lost? not sure the exact time frame....

3kings · #19 06-05-2012, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunder Gulch

I questioned Rags at 10f, so I'm firmly in the camp that believes those bloodlines don't favor him getting better going 12f.

I'm in this camp too. He also hasn't showed enough improvement between last year and this year that makes me think he can win this race.

lemoncrush · #20 06-05-2012, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I think recent history shows that fresher horses run better at Belmont. I don't believe we've had a horse who ran in the Preakness win the Belmont since 2005. And before that, you have to go back to Point Given in 2001 to find a Belmont winner who even ran in the Preakness.

I agree, but you could argue Curlin ran a winning race in the Belmont after winning the preakness