Oden out again?

[Mortimer]

Originally Posted by GBBob

Do you guys want your own room?

Uh...she seems to be an unwilling participant,although I'm willing to give it a try.




See what you can do for me...OK?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

He was the number one pick in the draft. Whether you like it or not he has HUGE expectations. And he should. it's not like he was some steal in the 3rd round. Should he not be expected to do great things?

Kobe is still a better player than Lebron.

Sure he should have huge expectations. But dont you think its reasonable to give him more than 13 minutes to live up to them? What "great things" should he have done in 13 minutes in his first game on the road against the western conference champions??????????????????????????????

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I love the "but he can rebound .." arguement. He's a dominating presence in the lane. He should rebound. It's like giving a sumo wrestler credit for being able to eat a lot.

You cant say that a player should be a great rebounder based on his size. Thats a fallacy of logic.

If that were the case Yao Ming, Georghe Muresan and Shawn Bradley and Ralph Sampson would be the greatest rebounders in history.

And if that is the case and rebounding is so easy, why didnt Bynum have more than 3 rebounds in over twice the minutes? Why did he average but 6 per game last year in his third season while playing big minutes?

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Sorry if insulted you. It was more hyberpole than anything else.

Im just curious how you can make that assessment after 13 minutes?

Was it the way he ran? Did his jersey hang out? Was it the brand of shoes he endorses?

No...it comes from over 40 years of watching guys come to the NBA (god, I admitted that), many dominate in college but are a bust in the pros. The physicality of the pro game is important to note, this kid has a history of injury (obvious but true). Big guys (ie: 7 footers especially) often incur foot problems. Sam Bowie is an excellent example of what I fear, he was great in HS in Pa...followed his career, then he excelled in college but never healthy in pros. He will always be remembered as the guy picked before MJ but, in truth, he appeared to be a "can't miss" center. This kid is very raw...size and athletic ability allowed him to dominate in college (still, the injury bug struck) but the NBA is a whole new game. He can't shoot...no touch whatsoever and commits silly fouls (this was evident in college as well). Can he develop over time? Of course, but the pressure is huge for him to excel NOW. In a way, if this is a minor injury it could benefit him cause the Blazers upcoming schedule features the likes of Duncan, Shaq and (Gulp) the man-monster Howard! Bynum is still rather raw himself...against the likes of Howard and Shaq, this kid will be way over his head! Long term, my main issue is that I honestly don't think he will stay healthy given his past and the physical nature of the game...I hope I am proven wrong but...to me...I think we'll see many repeats of last night!

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

No...it comes from over 40 years of watching guys come to the NBA (god, I admitted that), many dominate in college but are a bust in the pros. The physicality of the pro game is important to note, this kid has a history of injury (obvious but true). Big guys (ie: 7 footers especially) often incur foot problems. Sam Bowie is an excellent example of what I fear, he was great in HS in Pa...followed his career, then he excelled in college but never healthy in pros. He will always be remembered as the guy picked before MJ but, in truth, he appeared to be a "can't miss" center. This kid is very raw...size and athletic ability allowed him to dominate in college (still, the injury bug struck) but the NBA is a whole new game. He can't shoot...no touch whatsoever and commits silly fouls (this was evident in college as well). Can he develop over time? Of course, but the pressure is huge for him to excel NOW. In a way, if this is a minor injury it could benefit him cause the Blazers upcoming schedule features the likes of Duncan, Shaq and (Gulp) the man-monster Howard! Bynum is still rather raw himself...against the likes of Howard and Shaq, this kid will be way over his head! Long term, my main issue is that I honestly don't think he will stay healthy given his past and the physical nature of the game...I hope I am proven wrong but...to me...I think we'll see many repeats of last night!

When one calls someone an "underachiever" it implies someone that doesnt work hard. If you meant he will underachieve based on the fact that he will stay injured, that is impossible to predict but i understand your point.

Silly fouls? Freshman commit silly fouls in college...even the great ones. Rookies do too.

Rookies get schooled by older players early in their careers. Its part of the rites of passage in the NBA. Playing against Shaq, Howard or whoever else will only make him better.

I just think labeling this kid after 13 minutes is ridiculous.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

When one calls someone an "underachiever" it implies someone that doesnt work hard. If you meant he will underachieve based on the fact that he will stay injured, that is impossible to predict but i understand your point.

Silly fouls? Freshman commit silly fouls in college...even the great ones. Rookies do too.

Rookies get schooled by older players early in their careers. Its part of the rites of passage in the NBA. Playing against Shaq, Howard or whoever else will only make him better.

I just think labeling this kid after 13 minutes is ridiculous.

1) underachiever means someone/thing that underachieves, it doesn't imply anything else to me...could be any number of reasons why.
2) the nature of this kid's game results (so far) in silly fouls, of course he can learn to play "smarter", whether he will be able to do so without sacrificing the physical/aggressive nature needed only time will tell. Some guys do and some don't!
3) again, how often do I have to say it...I wasn't labeling the kid merely expressing my thoughts that he may not meet expectations...leave it go!

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

So let me get this straight. I was unreasonable for comparing Bynum and Oden. But, you compared Oden to Mutombo. Interesting logic....What else do you have for an encore?

Of course he will get an opportunity to live up to them. We're all talking opinions here. i never said he should have done great things last night. Don't put words in my mouth. I said, I don't think he is the player that Bynum is. It remains to be seen.

In terms of what Mutombo looked like when he first came into the league? Very similar. Similar in build and similar in type of impact. Do you want Mutombo's stats from his first year?

Oden injured his foot less than 3 minutes into his first game and played a total of 13 minutes and you can make a judgement on who is better and who will be better? 13 minutes vs. 3 years and you can make a judgement as to who will be a better player.

Your talent evaluation skills are way beyond mine. You win.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

1) underachiever means someone/thing that underachieves, it doesn't imply anything else to me...could be any number of reasons why.
2) the nature of this kid's game results (so far) in silly fouls, of course he can learn to play "smarter", whether he will be able to do so without sacrificing the physical/aggressive nature needed only time will tell. Some guys do and some don't!
3) again, how often do I have to say it...I wasn't labeling the kid merely expressing my thoughts that he may not meet expectations...leave it go!

underachiever has connotations of underworker. Not the case here.

2. So far is THIRTEEN MINUTES. And 20 games in college. Tell me one big man that didnt commit silly fouls his freshman year in college?

Craziness.

They guy is a shot blocker, rebounder extraordinare.
That is enough for Portland right now. His injury is one
of the more severe. If he gets in NBA shape, with time,
he will get the offense down.

He will be a force this year if he gets minutes and stays
injury free. Without any offense he is a force.

I have a sick feeling he will be one of those that is
constantly limping around. Sad. And those wrinkle free
ointments are a must.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Rebounding and shot blocking extraordinaire? If I'm nuts for basing my opinion of him on 1 college season, how can he be called a shot blocker and rebounding extraordinaire off 1 college season?

Hey i didnt say it.

[Cannon Shell]

I probably saw him play 10 or 12 times in college, most of the games he was coming off of an injury to his wrist. He is extremely athletic for his size which is why he was drafted number 1. That and the fact he played really well during the tournament when seemingly healthy. There is no doubt that he has a really scary history of injuries but his peak potential (if he ever gets there) is a whole lot better than just about any other big guy out there. I think he reminds me a lot of Ewing in size and the way he moves but of course Ewing had 4 years of college experience coming into the league. Ewing also developed an offensive game that he wasnt asked to do in college. Simply not having much experience is so hard for a guy like Oden because he has never had to match up against really good big guys in HS or even much in college and has always been the best player on the court. You really have to give him at least this year and probably next before we will be able to really see what he has got or where he is going.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I probably saw him play 10 or 12 times in college, most of the games he was coming off of an injury to his wrist. He is extremely athletic for his size which is why he was drafted number 1. That and the fact he played really well during the tournament when seemingly healthy. There is no doubt that he has a really scary history of injuries but his peak potential (if he ever gets there) is a whole lot better than just about any other big guy out there. I think he reminds me a lot of Ewing in size and the way he moves but of course Ewing had 4 years of college experience coming into the league. Ewing also developed an offensive game that he wasnt asked to do in college. Simply not having much experience is so hard for a guy like Oden because he has never had to match up against really good big guys in HS or even much in college and has always been the best player on the court. You really have to give him at least this year and probably next before we will be able to really see what he has got or where he is going.

Exactly.

Ewing (and mutombo for that matter) had the best college coach for big men ever.

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Rebounding and shot blocking extraordinaire? If I'm nuts for basing my opinion of him on 1 college season, how can he be called a shot blocker and rebounding extraordinaire off 1 college season?

Ok. You are nuts.
Look at the man play.

Why was Lebron James drafted #1 without playing a single college season/game?

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I did. It seems a bit silly to call him an extraordinaire based on 1 season at college. The difference in the games is startling, but you know that. lebron is a special guy. One in a million. Freaky good athlete. That's why he was drafted #1. The comparison doesn't really work.

Sorry there were plenty of people that thought
Lebron would be overwhelmed by the pro game.
He plays maybe 27 games in a high school season
without traveling coast to coast to play 82 games? You dont think there
was some concern about adjusting?

Go back and try to remember the numerous legitimate arguements
about why he would take lots of time adjusting. He was not even playing
against pro athletes in these HS games. And suprisingly he was better
the 2nd half of the pro season.

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

So now we're going to compare lebron and Oden? i give up. Fire away Phil.

Lebron has spent a few more years in the NBA.
I dont think it would be fair to compare that.
But it is interesting to compare how diff. people feel
about number 1 draft picks .

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by pgardn[B

]Sorry there were plenty of people that thought
Lebron would be overwhelmed by the pro game.[/b]He plays maybe 27 games in a high school season
without traveling coast to coast to play 82 games? You dont think there
was some concern about adjusting?

Go back and try to remember the numerous legitimate arguements
about why he would take lots of time adjusting. He was not even playing
against pro athletes in these HS games. And suprisingly he was better
the 2nd half of the pro season.

Like who? LOL. Do you just make this **** up as you go? He was a cant miss, once in a generation player when he came out and there was no debate whatsoever about him being number one.

Why dont you just go to bed phil. You have to be better than this.

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Like who? LOL. Do you just make this **** up as you go? He was a cant miss, once in a generation player when he came out and there was no debate whatsoever about him being number one.

Why dont you just go to bed phil. You have to be better than this.

I cant help myself.
You need to be seen for who you are.

You are telling me when Lebron was drafted, before he played
a pro game. He was called a once in a lifetime player?
By the people who saw him in HS yes.

But to say the consensus was Lebron was a once in a lifetime player
is complete BS. And you know this if you really kept up when Lebron was
drafted #1. It is easy to say now. But when you forget what was....
Selective memory.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by pgardn

I cant help myself.
You need to be seen for who you are.

You are telling me when Lebron was drafted, before he played
a pro game. He was called a once in a lifetime player?
By the people who saw him in HS yes.

But to say the consensus was Lebron was a once in a lifetime player
is complete BS. And you know this if you really kept up when Lebron was
drafted #1. It is easy to say now. But when you forget what was....
Selective memory.

The "consensus" did see him play in high school. ESPN was televising a couple of his regular season games which was a first for a high school athlete.

There was no question. Sports illustrated did a huge piece on him when he was a JUNIOR in high school.

LOL. you are so clueless im laughing at you.

Originally Posted by dalakhani

The "consensus" did see him play in high school. ESPN was televising a couple of his regular season games which was a first for a high school athlete.

There was no question. Sports illustrated did a huge piece on him when he was a JUNIOR in high school.

LOL. you are so clueless im laughing at you.

Sport ILLUSTRATED.
A great source for success in the future.
Please stop reading magazines and watch the damn games.

THere were plenty of doubters that he was coming out way to
early and that he would be eaten up by the pro game. Seriously,
you have to know this.