Most Impressive in Defeat?

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Use of the whip is strategy.

This is where we disagree. No point going on, I've said all I really have to say on the matter. I'm going to side with helping bettors 100% of the time over making things easier on horsemen every time, because I'm a bettor. Every time I counter something you say, you change the issue. Doesn't speak English. Give me a break.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

This is where we disagree. No point going on, I've said all I really have to say on the matter. I'm going to side with helping bettors 100% of the time over making things easier on horsemen every time, because I'm a bettor. Every time I counter something you say, you change the issue. Doesn't speak English. Give me a break.

You are casting stones from an ivory tower. I'm simply being realistic. It isn't any hardship on horsemen, they just wont feel the need to tell the stewards because there is nothing to lose or gain from it. It isn't a matter of taking sides like you always want to make it. It is just a lack of practicality and essentially making a trainers instruction a rule.

[Jay Frederick]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

This is where we disagree. No point going on, I've said all I really have to say on the matter. I'm going to side with helping bettors 100% of the time over making things easier on horsemen every time, because I'm a bettor. Every time I counter something you say, you change the issue. Doesn't speak English. Give me a break.

There is some gray area on if knowing this is a help to bettors or not.

Your point is well taken, but as a bettor, this information isn't something I care about. Now if you're talking about knowing something like accurate first time gelding information or knowing if a horse had a significant surgery I'm in full agreement.

Here's a hypothetical scenario. Pletcher discloses Havana won't be whipped. You decide not to play him because of this and during the stretch Stevens decides that maybe the horse will respond favorably to the whip and decides to whip Havana and Havana actually comes back and wins.

Then we'd be back to square one.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Jay Frederick

Here's a hypothetical scenario. Pletcher discloses Havana won't be whipped. You decide not to play him because of this and during the stretch Stevens decides that maybe the horse will respond favorably to the whip and decides to whip Havana and Havana actually comes back and wins.

Then we'd be back to square one.

He then gets fined and suspended I guess. At least I know somebody is watching. There has to be a line somewhere to help bettors, so I'm going to argue for every inch and hope it gets better for us.

I said a while back I know there are a lot more important things to worry about. The stuff you mention is certainly up there. But that would probably inconvenience somebody, or the vet might only speak Mandarin and accidentally confuse "gelded" for "displaced palate", and we can't have that.

[cmorioles]

Have fun, I'm off to get my brain MRIed (seriously), so maybe they'll find the reason I get into these discussions!

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

He then gets fined and suspended I guess. At least I know somebody is watching. There has to be a line somewhere to help bettors, so I'm going to argue for every inch and hope it gets better for us.

I said a while back I know there are a lot more important things to worry about. The stuff you mention is certainly up there. But that would probably inconvenience somebody, or the vet might only speak Mandarin and accidentally confuse "gelded" for "displaced palate", and we can't have that.

Do bettors really care if a jockey gets fined or suspended?

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Do bettors really care if a jockey gets fined or suspended?

Why does that matter? You don't have rules to make the bettors happy. God the last person they care about in this game is the bettors.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Why does that matter? You don't have rules to make the bettors happy. God the last person they care about in this game is the bettors.

He wants the rule to make the bettors happy. My contention is that very few people give a **** if the jock gets fined or suspended, they'd rather have cashed a ticket.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

He wants the rule to make the bettors happy. My contention is that very few people give a **** if the jock gets fined or suspended, they'd rather have cashed a ticket.

That's true, though I think the bettors on here are more informed so it's a little different.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

He wants the rule to make the bettors happy. My contention is that very few people give a **** if the jock gets fined or suspended, they'd rather have cashed a ticket.

We'd rather they just follow the rules in the first place, but if not, sure, I want to see them punished. Without rules, there is chaos.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Do bettors really care if a jockey gets fined or suspended?

Sure, at least you know somebody is paying attention. There are many days I'm sure the stewards slept through a race.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Sure, at least you know somebody is paying attention. There are many days I'm sure the stewards slept through a race.

They usually read golfing magazines

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

He then gets fined and suspended I guess. At least I know somebody is watching. There has to be a line somewhere to help bettors, so I'm going to argue for every inch and hope it gets better for us.

It would be really, really hard to enforce that. What's to stop the jockey from just saying he or she thought the horse was starting to lug in on another horse, or some other issue of safe riding? The stewards are supposed to fine a jockey for using a legitimate piece of equipment because he or she believed the horse's or another horse's safety depended on it?

I can't see how knowing a jockey is supposed to whip or not whip a horse is going to successfully influence a wagering strategy- some horses are encouraged by a whip, some are discouraged and some couldn't give a f*ck either way. You just have to assume the trainer knows the horse well enough to know how the horse responds to the stick, and that the trainer and the jockey both want to win the race, so they're going to do what gives them the best chance, and what's best may change during the race, depending on how it unfolds.

Good luck with the MRI today; hope it all goes smoothly for you!