Bernardini IS

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

So let me get this straight.. You're already writing off the BCC field, and pre-emptively discrediting Bernardini if he wins the BCC, because it's already a bad field in your opinion. Now I've heard everything.

This just in. There's a REASON that he's facing nobody. NO ONE WANTS TO FACE HIM.

Your attitude is everything that's wrong with the racewatching public. Rather than appreciate the type of horse that only comes along a few times in a life (if we're lucky), you'd rather sit back and knock the horse for something he cannot control and something that is mainly A RESULT OF HIS BRILLIANCE. There's absolutely no satisfying this type of racing "fan" unless we go dig up Secretariat, Seattle Slew, find Spectacular Bid, etc. and run them against this horse. Then if he loses, the "fan" will say "I told you so." It's a complete joke.

THIS IS SOMETHING I'VE LEARNED OVER THE YEARS AS A RACING FAN: NO MATTER HOW GOOD THE HORSE, THE "HE BEAT NOBODY" CROWD WILL ALWAYS EXIST.

It wouldn't matter if Pegasus came to life and won the BCC by 87 lengths. There would, without a doubt, be the "Yeah, but who did Pegasus beat?" sad sacks chiming in at every opportunity.

And I can't even respond to "Smarty ran against much better horses and had a much more difficult schedule" without laughing myself blue.

Yet what I find even more absurdly hilarious is that when Lava Man beats Super Frolic for the 22nd time, we get 1,000 new threads proclaiming this horse the greatest older male since Man O' War. Okay. It's real tough to stay within 40 miles of your home base and beat the same four or five horses all year long. Much tougher than doing what Bernardini has done.

It's ridiculous.

And who in Gods name is close to decent then ateam if Lava Man is not. Which outside of Cali I dont think he is. Are really telling me we got a bunch of good older horses? Is that what you are saying? Who are they? It has not been a good year and it is not Bernardinis fault. But I cant rate him the greatest in 30 years as one poster did. No way no how. I wonder if that poster has been alive 30 years.

And I can't even respond to "Smarty ran against much better horses and had a much more difficult schedule" without laughing myself blue.

Then why did you respond and laugh yourself blue?

And you are telling me Bernardini ran 3 TC races? For gods sake what schedule is more difficult than that? TELL ME ATEAM, GIVE ME A MORE DIFFICULT SCHEDULE?

ANd you are coronating this horse as the best horse to come along in years... Why? Because he looks great in his wins. BUT FOR GODS SAKE I HAVE WATCHED THIS STUFF A LOT LONGER THAN YOU, SO TELL ME, HOW DO YOU DEFINE GREAT?

In my humble definition of GREAT you have got to be pushed and come through some adversity. Yes in my definition, you have to do more than win. A horse has to win facing some adversity. If the horse is so great then why does he not run with more weight against his elders? Who cares if he is 3, he is GREAT, ATEAM says so, so weight him down in a HANDICAP instead of older horses. Handicap THE BEST HORSE.

This just in. There's a REASON that he's facing nobody. NO ONE WANTS TO FACE HIM.

Who is out there to face him on the level of Barbaro that is not injured or sick? Who ATEAM? Who is up and coming and worthy? Which horse ATEam, since the older division and 3 year olds are so loaded this year? FACT: This is not a good year in the older division or the 3 yo division. The best horses where pushed too hard and or are out, or are not present. Bernadini's connections played it perfectly.

And I have already stated its not his fault numerous times. You making a post as absurd as this... makes me want the horse to lose which I dont. I want to see the horse beat some hot horses.

So you think Bernardini has run a schedule tougher that Smarty JONes... get real. The TC is murder. And they new it. Alert ATEam, there is no tougher series of races than the triple crown. If so, give it to me.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

see what i mean? it's ok to knock lava mans competition, but not bernardinis. right? and by your logic, if lava man is the best comp that bernie will face, than yeah, evidently it is a crappy field--since you think lava man stinks, right?

Exactly.

You guys aren't very good at reading comprehension. My point is that there's a great deal of hypocrisy in almost everything the Bernardini haters say. The same people who destroy Bernardini for beating no one are suspiciously silent whenever Lava Man is getting praise around here. This is ludicrous. They both have beaten nobody, yet Bernardini is the only one who attracts the "he beat nobody" gathering. That was all I was saying.

Originally Posted by pgardn

And who in Gods name is close to decent then ateam if Lava Man is not. Which outside of Cali I dont think he is. Are really telling me we got a bunch of good older horses? Is that what you are saying? Who are they? It has not been a good year and it is not Bernardinis fault. But I cant rate him the greatest in 30 years as one poster did. No way no how. I wonder if that poster has been alive 30 years.

The point is that you might as well not even respond to Bernardini posts anymore, because there's no way your opinion can be changed, no matter what he does at CD. So despite anything the horse does, you're gonna be singing the same tune.

Originally Posted by pgardn

And I can't even respond to "Smarty ran against much better horses and had a much more difficult schedule" without laughing myself blue.

Then why did you respond and laugh yourself blue?

Did I respond to that quote? No, I didn't.

Originally Posted by pgardn

In my humble definition of GREAT you have got to be pushed and come through some adversity. Yes in my definition, you have to do more than win. A horse has to win facing some adversity. If the horse is so great then why does he not run with more weight against his elders? Who cares if he is 3, he is GREAT, ATEAM says so, so weight him down in a HANDICAP instead of older horses. Handicap THE BEST HORSE.

The Jockey Club Gold Cup isn't a handicap. And it comes back to your same tired argument. Bernardini might as well retire, according to you. He'll never become great, because in order to do that, he has to beat horses that won't run against him. Greatness to me is earned with a mix of dominance, respect from others and an inexplicable quality, which is just that I'm blown away every time the horse runs. The only other horse besides this one that blew me away every time he ran was Ghostzapper. Like you said, I haven't been watching races forever, but since I have, those are the two who blew me away everytime they ran. Plus there's something I heard early on about this horse that I can't repeat here, which let me know that he could be great, and this statement has yet to be proven wrong.

Going back to Ghostzapper for a minute, there's something to be said about how much praise he gets around here these days. Back when he was running, I always felt like I was in the minority in thinking he was something special. But now, all I see is Ghostzapper this, Ghostzapper that. You think maybe there are certain people who just have a psychological tendency to not be able to appreciate great things until they're gone?

Originally Posted by pgardn

FACT: This is not a good year in the older division or the 3 yo division.

Really? That's a FACT? Not an opinion?

Originally Posted by pgardn

And I have already stated its not his fault numerous times. You making a post as absurd as this... makes me want the horse to lose which I dont. I want to see the horse beat some hot horses.

Yeah, I made the absurd post. You're already discrediting him for winning a "weak" Classic, and I'm off the deep end here.

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Exactly.

1.The point is that you might as well not even respond to Bernardini posts anymore, because there's no way your opinion can be changed, no matter what he does at CD. So despite anything the horse does, you're gonna be singing the same tune.



2.Did I respond to that quote? No, I didn't.



3.The Jockey Club Gold Cup isn't a handicap. And it comes back to your same tired argument. Bernardini might as well retire, according to you. He'll never become great, because in order to do that, he has to beat horses that won't run against him. Greatness to me is earned with a mix of dominance, respect from others and an inexplicable quality, which is just that I'm blown away every time the horse runs. The only other horse besides this one that blew me away every time he ran was Ghostzapper. Like you said, I haven't been watching races forever, but since I have, those are the two who blew me away everytime they ran. Plus there's something I heard early on about this horse that I can't repeat here, which let me know that he could be great, and this statement has yet to be proven wrong.

4.Going back to Ghostzapper for a minute, there's something to be said about how much praise he gets around here these days. Back when he was running, I always felt like I was in the minority in thinking he was something special. But now, all I see is Ghostzapper this, Ghostzapper that. You think maybe there are certain people who just have a psychological tendency to not be able to appreciate great things until they're gone?



5.Really? That's a FACT? Not an opinion?



6.Yeah, I made the absurd post. You're already discrediting him for winning a "weak" Classic, and I'm off the deep end here.

1. I wont change my opinion? How do you know that? I need some tough races, and the BCC does give the opportunity. Especially if the horse gets into some traffic problems, which does not usually happen in 4 horse fields.

2. No you responded. Enough silly games like this.

3. I did not say the Jockey Club Gold was a handicap. Although I did imply it by adding older horses. I would be more impressed if the horse ran in a handicap like Mineshaft and really weighted down at distance. They actually used to run races with serious handicaps.

4. I never did this with Ghostzapper, although I was skeptical early on. He earned my respect. But I will never go bonkers over this horse being he was so fragile. I use longevity as one criteria. Thats why Smarty wont make it all the way either, except as a horse that ran some fantastic TC races as a 3yo. Seattle sees Candy Ride run one freak race here and he is sold this horse is the greatest ever. I think you see my point.

5. Oh very good ateam, its an opinion. Refute it.

6. You are not off the deep end. Like many others you have spotted a very good horse. Lets see him show he is great. Hope he gets the chance. There have been a number of very good horses in the past that did not get a chance.

Oh yes, this is an opinion to.

Ateam,
Noone hates Bernadini, and noone hated Ghostzapper.
In Zapper's case he was winning shorter races and beating SMALL fields, albeit better fields than Dini has but needed a "defining race" to show everyone how special he was and elevate him to "great" status. His BC Classic race was exactly that, he demolished and destroyed the field against his preferred running style to run an incredible figure.
Anyone who "hated" him or questioned him after that needs a straight jacket.
If Bernadini does the same thing then noone will question a thing about him either.
I think its quite fair to acknowledge Dini's immense talent yet still need to see a "defining race" out of him. Beating medocre horses or injured horses is NOT his fault. He can only beat what hes put up against. Noone with a brain is "hating" on him. Its just that need for a defining race that people wanna see.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Ateam,
Its just that need for a defining race that people wanna see.

You can put me on record as stating "you'll NEVER see one". I could care less if he beats Andromeda's Hero and that other quitter by a half mile.

If he puts away HH going 7/8th's to a mile I'll readdress my statement.

[Travis Stone]

It's laughable. If a horse dominates a division, the division is weak. If no horse dominates a division, the division is weak. What will make people happy? Horseplayers are never happy.

[kenny p]

I looked at Bernadini in the paddock the other day. While I am not an expert like most of you people he is one of the most impressive looking thouroughbreds i have ever seen. He also seems to have a real presence about him. I hope he crushes the Classic field. I have been on this forum since May and it seems to becoming a place for smallminded idiots to belittle each other. Thats a shame because its run by a real classy guy. KP

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

It's laughable. If a horse dominates a division, the division is weak. If no horse dominates a division, the division is weak. What will make people happy? Horseplayers are never happy.

Black and white statements like yours are ridiculous. Stick to race calling.

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

If a horse dominates a division, the division is weak. If no horse dominates a division, the division is weak. What will make people happy? Horseplayers are never happy.

You are correct in stating that horse players in general are never happy.