8/7 (DMR): Clement L. Hirsch S. (G1)

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

You've never been around a brutal Narcissist. All you people are pssd about her, but you tune in to get your punishment. You all think (for at least a couple seconds each race) that you might have her beat. Then she punishes you yet again. Most of ya been trying to get her beat for what? 10 races? She punishes you, but also wants to keep giving you hope. That way, she knows you'll come back for another beating. You have a huge shot at beating her with BLAME, but don't bet money that you need.

I think what you meant to say about Zenyatta was "Thank you, your Majesty. May I have another?"

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

She apparently did not ship great when she went to Oaklawn this year. The trip knocked her out and she lost weight. Knowing that, why would they want to ship her again this year before they ship her to Kentucky in November for the BC Classic? Why would they want to knock her out before the big race?

All horses are different. Some horses handle shipping really well and others don't. Going into this year, I think they were planning on shipping quite a bit this year. But since she didn't handle it particulary well, they're not going to do it again before the BC Classic. I guess there is a small chance that they will ship her for her final prep but I would say the odds are against it.

I agree. I think they would most like a chance to go after not only Rachel but your Quality Road, Blame, Rail Trip, etc in one go. I think they're concerned about what could happen in the Classic if they go for the Beldame first this year. I think they were tempted by the race last year because they go back for the Classic on their home "plastic," but this time, we're talking non-home environment #2 and that wouldn't do her any favors (assuming there are actually shipping issues). I feel like there's a very good reason we haven't seen 2 "eastern" races back to back which is a shame because it has zero to do with her talent. Sure her issue with Churchill last year was weather related but was any of it connected with shipping strain? I guess at least this year post-Oaklawn it's obvious that it's stressful for her. Might almost be better if she doesn't come to the Beldame so we get the best Z possible for the BCC. This assumes of course that I'm not completely misreading the situation, and she actually is fine with shipping. In the event of that, oops.

[Danzig]

i think they go for the record wins streak and then retire her. no classic, no trip, finish in california and send her to the broodmare barn. if they are unwilling to take on colts this year on poly, why would they want to on dirt? she loves it out west, loves the poly. she's won a classic, no need for another.

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i think they go for the record wins streak and then retire her. no classic, no trip, finish in california and send her to the broodmare barn. if they are unwilling to take on colts this year on poly, why would they want to on dirt? she loves it out west, loves the poly. she's won a classic, no need for another.

Well because she's better on dirt, and they want to swoop in, beat all the big east coast challengers, and get HOY. I think they figure they can kill multiple birds with one stone here. They get her to enjoy all year in their own backyard, only have to ship once, and then voila she beats the prospective HOY candidates. They would at least have the co-win streak with Pepper's Pride (and obviously the most G1s w/o a loss) followed by the win they figure they get in the BCC, making her the leader outright.

[geeker2]

Attachment 1542

[randallscott35]

I'm assuming that finger doesn't represent paths from the rail?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

Well because she's better on dirt, and they want to swoop in, beat all the big east coast challengers, and get HOY. I think they figure they can kill multiple birds with one stone here. They get her to enjoy all year in their own backyard, only have to ship once, and then voila she beats the prospective HOY candidates. They would at least have the co-win streak with Pepper's Pride (and obviously the most G1s w/o a loss) followed by the win they figure they get in the BCC, making her the leader outright.

well, according to tvg ( i listened on the radio) she's the best horse in america right now-this was before her win this afternoon. i would disagree and say that must be blame after his win over QR...
anyway, she doesn't need much money to be the top money earner in the distaff division...
i'd like to see her go east, i just won't hold my breath waiting for it. there goals are different from all of ours (they own her, it's their right!). they are stressing the win streak most of all. if they get it, and already have the classic win, why do another? they can get the money and the wins at home. and of course i read their 'we want to support cali racing' comment the other day.
zenyatta is obviously a very special horse. can't say i blame them for wanting to keep her close by. i just wish they'd have been willing to take on the boys this year. she handled them just fine last fall. winning a pac classic or hollywood gold cup would have looked so good on her record.

[Revidere]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

Well because she's better on dirt, and they want to swoop in, beat all the big east coast challengers, and get HOY. I think they figure they can kill multiple birds with one stone here. They get her to enjoy all year in their own backyard, only have to ship once, and then voila she beats the prospective HOY candidates. They would at least have the co-win streak with Pepper's Pride (and obviously the most G1s w/o a loss) followed by the win they figure they get in the BCC, making her the leader outright.

And Quality Road has shipped where? Oh I forgot Florida. Belmont south.

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by Revidere

And Quality Road has shipped where? Oh I forgot Florida. Belmont south.

QR shipped to Santa Anita and found that he didn't like the starting gate helicopter and that was that. He s h i t alover himself trying to fly back home too. It's not the travel, he just hates airports.

[Theatrical]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i think they go for the record wins streak and then retire her. no classic, no trip, finish in california and send her to the broodmare barn. if they are unwilling to take on colts this year on poly, why would they want to on dirt? she loves it out west, loves the poly. she's won a classic, no need for another.

LOL. You know nothing about this mare. Nothing. Zero. Nada

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i think they go for the record wins streak and then retire her. no classic, no trip, finish in california and send her to the broodmare barn. if they are unwilling to take on colts this year on poly, why would they want to on dirt? she loves it out west, loves the poly. she's won a classic, no need for another.

That's an interesting theory but it's totally wrong. They have one goal right now and that goal is to win the BC Classic this year. There is no chance they retire her unless she gets hurt. Every move they make with her is designed to be what they think is the best path to the Classic.

By the way, they think she's better on dirt.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

That's an interesting theory but it's totally wrong. They have one goal right now and that goal is to win the BC Classic this year. There is no chance they retire her unless she gets hurt. Every move they make with her is designed to be what they think is the best path to the Classic.

By the way, they think she's better on dirt.

My goal is to win a Nobel Peace prize this year for having uncommon sense. Ain't gonna happen though.

If they do retire her prior to the BC, they will say she's hurt.

By the way, they say they think she's better on dirt. There's a big difference between saying it and thinking it. Which they don't.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

My goal is to win a Nobel Peace prize this year for having uncommon sense. Ain't gonna happen though.

If they do retire her prior to the BC, they will say she's hurt.

By the way, they say they think she's better on dirt. There's a big difference between saying it and thinking it. Which they don't.

I should correct my earlier post. They actually have 3 goals right now. First, they want to win HOY. Second, they want to win the BC Classic again. Third, they want to reamin undefeated. Every move they make is designed to accomplish these 3 goals. If they win the BC Classic, they kill two birds with one stone. They win the race and they win HOY.

When you consider that those are their 3 goals right now, it wouldn't make much sense for them to look for a tough race right now. They don't need to. They will win HOY if they win the BC Classic. If they don't win the BC Classic, they won't win HOY. Running in a tough race right now doesn't accomplish anything for them and it could hurt one of their goals. If she loses, it kills their goal of staying undefeated.

They will definitely run in the BC Classic because they desperately want to win HOY.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I should correct my earlier post. They actually have 3 goals right now. First, they want to win HOY. Second, they want to win the BC Classic again. Third, they want to reamin undefeated.

It's about just trying to stay undefeated and having her cranked up to run one whole big race this year.

Coming to Saratoga and trying to beat Rachel Alexandra on dirt - the surface which most American horses are bred best for - at the Classic distance of 10fs - that would have been awesome.

They know she is more likely to finish ahead of RA in the Classic because horses like Quality Road and Rail Trip won't let her loaf ... so, it's basically a full of year of yawners leading into a half court heave at a dirt BC Classic in which she will have her best possible chance at placing in front of RA as some moral victory if she doesn't win the race outright.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

It's about just trying to stay undefeated and having her cranked up to run one whole big race this year.

Coming to Saratoga and trying to beat Rachel Alexandra on dirt - the surface which most American horses are bred best for - at the Classic distance of 10fs - that would have been awesome.

They know she is more likely to finish ahead of RA in the Classic because horses like Quality Road and Rail Trip won't let her loaf ... so, it's basically a full of year of yawners leading into a half court heave at a dirt BC Classic in which she will have her best possible chance at placing in front of RA as some moral victory if she doesn't win the race outright.

Perfectly stated Doug.

[Rileyoriley]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

It's about just trying to stay undefeated and having her cranked up to run one whole big race this year.

Coming to Saratoga and trying to beat Rachel Alexandra on dirt - the surface which most American horses are bred best for - at the Classic distance of 10fs - that would have been awesome.

They know she is more likely to finish ahead of RA in the Classic because horses like Quality Road and Rail Trip won't let her loaf ... so, it's basically a full of year of yawners leading into a half court heave at a dirt BC Classic in which she will have her best possible chance at placing in front of RA as some moral victory if she doesn't win the race outright.

After yesterday's races, personally I'm looking forward to the BCC and Blame v. Zenyatta. If both horses win their next races, we'll have the undefeated mare from the west going against the undefeated colt (in 2010) from the east. The media would hopefully eat this up and really promote the race. RA, at this point, is an afterthought.

[Rileyoriley]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I should correct my earlier post. They actually have 3 goals right now. First, they want to win HOY. Second, they want to win the BC Classic again. Third, they want to reamin undefeated. Every move they make is designed to accomplish these 3 goals. If they win the BC Classic, they kill two birds with one stone. They win the race and they win HOY.

When you consider that those are their 3 goals right now, it wouldn't make much sense for them to look for a tough race right now. They don't need to. They will win HOY if they win the BC Classic. If they don't win the BC Classic, they won't win HOY. Running in a tough race right now doesn't accomplish anything for them and it could hurt one of their goals. If she loses, it kills their goal of staying undefeated.

They will definitely run in the BC Classic because they desperately want to win HOY.

I'd reverse the 3 goals. Remaining undefeated and winning the BCC again will be remembered before who won HOY in 2010.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

That's an interesting theory but it's totally wrong. They have one goal right now and that goal is to win the BC Classic this year. There is no chance they retire her unless she gets hurt. Every move they make with her is designed to be what they think is the best path to the Classic.

By the way, they think she's better on dirt.

they say they are going to the bc. but they also said they were going to travel with her this year, let her fans see her, and try new things. if they haven't done any of that, how can you be sure they will really point to the bc? you can't. they talk a big talk, but what has she done differently this year? then you see the comments from them about cali, about not shipping, about the win streak. i don't think i'm going out on a limb by suggesting they really don't intend to go to the bc. i think they want peppers prides record, and the money won record. i think the bc is further down on the list, especially with her having won one.
it remains to be seen; i hope she goes, don't get me wrong. but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if she doesn't go.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Danzig

they say they are going to the bc. but they also said they were going to travel with her this year, let her fans see her, and try new things. if they haven't done any of that, how can you be sure they will really point to the bc? you can't. they talk a big talk, but what has she done differently this year? then you see the comments from them about cali, about not shipping, about the win streak. i don't think i'm going out on a limb by suggesting they really don't intend to go to the bc. i think they want peppers prides record, and the money won record. i think the bc is further down on the list, especially with her having won one.
it remains to be seen; i hope she goes, don't get me wrong. but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if she doesn't go.

They were planning on travelling this year but the trip to Oaklawn knocked her out a little bit. They know they're going to ship again for the BC and possibly once right before it. That is why they have not shipped her since the Oaklawn race. They felt that would simply be too many trips for the horse.

Anyway, they were very disappointed that they didn't win HOY last year. That is one of the main reasons they brought her back this year, to win HOY. They know they have to win the BC Classic to win HOY. Therefore, there is no doubt that they will run there assuming nothing goes wrong between now and then.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

They were planning on travelling this year but the trip to Oaklawn knocked her out a little bit. They know they're going to ship again for the BC and possibly once right before it. That is why they have not shipped her since the Oaklawn race. They felt that would simply be too many trips for the horse.

Anyway, they were very disappointed that they didn't win HOY last year. That is one of the main reasons they brought her back this year, to win HOY. They know they have to win the BC Classic to win HOY. Therefore, there is no doubt that they will run there assuming nothing goes wrong between now and then.

after reading shirreffs comments about shipping to ny, and not wanting to leave his string behind, i find their talk of wanting to travel with her just that-talk. they spoke the other day of wanting to support cali racing, and they're doing just that. fine with me. cali needs all the support it can get. we'll see about the bc when it happens. i hope she shows, but i won't be surprised if she doesn't. because right now, all they're doing about that is talking, just like the rest of it.

and be careful about saying 'there's no doubt in my mind'. i used that phrase and got clobbered for it by someone who took umbrage. hey, i hope you're right rupert. i hope she shows. but i'll believe it only when i see it. that's no slur on you at all.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Danzig

after reading shirreffs comments about shipping to ny, and not wanting to leave his string behind, i find their talk of wanting to travel with her just that-talk.

What string? He has 59 starts for the entire year.