Lawyer Ron Goes to Pletcher..

#1 10-02-2006, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Well after doing some research I may be wrong in calling the Haisfield's elitist *******s. It seems that they're not your typical second or third generation blue blood and are actually quite new to the game. So I'll just call them naive jackasses since they overpaid for LR.

And they're really naive if they think Pletcher is going to lead this horse to a classic win. If things come together perfectly LR could have a shot at the Donn at GP but that's a longshot and a complete guess on my part. For all I know Pletcher could send him west.

I was just going to post a piece about the Haisfield's. Its guys like you who claim to love racing and have all teh wrong ideas that make me sick.
Look, we NEED more people like them, new people who love the game and jump in with both feet first. They would be anti establishment, anti elitist people, too bad you did your research AFTER the fact instead of before your ill advised post bashing them.
Ok, so now they overpaid. But thats what the stallion game is at that point Pillow, do you know much about it? If you are buying one at the end of his career, its pretty obvious what his market value is. WHen you SPECULATE and buy one before the Tri Crown, its always gonna be a huge gamble, where you overpay based on the hope that he wins a classic race and then you UNDERPAID. But if he doesn't you have to make lemons out of lemonade.
Yeah, he overpaid perhaps. And everyone got rich except him.
A friend of mine brokered one of his stallions and after working in this business for 30-40 years, he finally got set for life. Says the guys a complete gentleman.
Obviously he loves the game, dove in headfirst, and is trying to make a go of it. Everytime one of those horses gets bought, a lotta people make a lotta dough. The kinda dough they might not make in 5 years of business, rising each day and working their asses off.
I find it hard to label him a bad guy or elitist because he made a business decision aimed at what he feels is his best attempt to make his dough back.
Most people who play in this business lose. He wouldn't be the first to overpay on a stallion.
We need more guys like this guy joining the business in order for it to survive the long haul. NEW money is what we desperately need. Self made guys who jump in and go for it. Its real easy for a fourth generation robber baron's offspring to kick up 100 mill out of the trust fund they were left. Its a lot harder for someone who worked their whole lives in business to get to the point where they can do something like this if they CHOOSE to.
If he violated a contract, I'm sure it will go to court, and the damaged party be awarded just compensation. I'm not gonna say if he did that, that its ok.
But I'm not gonna condemn teh guy either, and again, I don't find Pletcher to be the key part of this story. To me hes just a footnote. If it wasn't Pletcher it woulda been some other big name trainer whose already successful. I don't see the difference.

#2 10-02-2006, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oracle80

I was just going to post a piece about the Haisfield's. Its guys like you who claim to love racing and have all teh wrong ideas that make me sick.
Look, we NEED more people like them, new people who love the game and jump in with both feet first. They would be anti establishment, anti elitist people, too bad you did your research AFTER the fact instead of before your ill advised post bashing them.

Yeah but we need people like them to make good business decisions. Buying a Langfuhr for $6 million is a bigtime gamble. Sure the horse had a shot at the derby but the risk vs. reward wasn't balanced in their favor.

What put up the red flag for me is how one of the Hines' family members loved the horse and said they wouldn't consider selling until after the triple crown races. I was told this by them before the Arkansas Derby. And then all of a sudden the horse is for sale? Hmm.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oracle80

Ok, so now they overpaid. But thats what the stallion game is at that point Pillow, do you know much about it? If you are buying one at the end of his career, its pretty obvious what his market value is. WHen you SPECULATE and buy one before the Tri Crown, its always gonna be a huge gamble, where you overpay based on the hope that he wins a classic race and then you UNDERPAID. But if he doesn't you have to make lemons out of lemonade.

I've got a relative who is a breeder and his livelihood depends on people overpaying for horse flesh. I believe one of his babies was purchased and put under the care of Pletcher. Could be wrong though.

It's amazing the ups and downs he goes through. One day he makes $200k and the next day he loses a mare because she kicked her stall.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oracle80

Yeah, he overpaid perhaps. And everyone got rich except him.
A friend of mine brokered one of his stallions and after working in this business for 30-40 years, he finally got set for life. Says the guys a complete gentleman.
Obviously he loves the game, dove in headfirst, and is trying to make a go of it. Everytime one of those horses gets bought, a lotta people make a lotta dough. The kinda dough they might not make in 5 years of business, rising each day and working their asses off.
I find it hard to label him a bad guy or elitist because he made a business decision aimed at what he feels is his best attempt to make his dough back.
Most people who play in this business lose. He wouldn't be the first to overpay on a stallion.
We need more guys like this guy joining the business in order for it to survive the long haul. NEW money is what we desperately need. Self made guys who jump in and go for it. Its real easy for a fourth generation robber baron's offspring to kick up 100 mill out of the trust fund they were left. Its a lot harder for someone who worked their whole lives in business to get to the point where they can do something like this if they CHOOSE to.
If he violated a contract, I'm sure it will go to court, and the damaged party be awarded just compensation. I'm not gonna say if he did that, that its ok.
But I'm not gonna condemn teh guy either, and again, I don't find Pletcher to be the key part of this story. To me hes just a footnote. If it wasn't Pletcher it woulda been some other big name trainer whose already successful. I don't see the difference.

Hey I admit what I said about them was wrong. But part of the blame of the state of racing is the way these *******s who inherited their wealth/farm have squandered everything their kin had worked for. They end up selling the farm to a sheikh and then we have to endure those ungrateful pricks winning all of the big races and owning all of the top stallions and mares.

Makes me sick.

I root for people like the Haisfields. We need 1000 more of them.

#3 10-02-2006, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Yeah but we need people like them to make good business decisions. Buying a Langfuhr for $6 million is a bigtime gamble. Sure the horse had a shot at the derby but the risk vs. reward wasn't balanced in their favor.

What put up the red flag for me is how one of the Hines' family members loved the horse and said they wouldn't consider selling until after the triple crown races. I was told this by them before the Arkansas Derby. And then all of a sudden the horse is for sale? Hmm.

I've got a relative who is a breeder and his livelihood depends on people overpaying for horse flesh. I believe one of his babies was purchased and put under the care of Pletcher. Could be wrong though.

It's amazing the ups and downs he goes through. One day he makes $200k and the next day he loses a mare because she kicked her stall.

Hey I admit what I said about them was wrong. But part of the blame of the state of racing is the way these *******s who inherited their wealth/farm have squandered everything their kin had worked for. They end up selling the farm to a sheikh and then we have to endure those ungrateful pricks winning all of the big races and owning all of the top stallions and mares.

Makes me sick.

I root for people like the Haisfields. We need 1000 more of them.

I'm very willing to bet that the relative who said they would never sell had a real change of heart when the offer was put in front of them!!!!!!!!

#4 10-02-2006, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oracle80

I'm very willing to bet that the relative who said they would never sell had a real change of heart when the offer was put in front of them!!!!!!!!

Mr. Hines was a multi-millionaire. I mean absolutely loaded. Owned one of the largest tool and die operations in Kentucky.

#5 10-02-2006, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Mr. Hines was a multi-millionaire. I mean absolutely loaded. Owned one of the largest tool and die operations in Kentucky.

And obviously that business acumen was well heeded and inherited by his family.
When someone tosses that many zeroes in front of you for a horse whos been beating Steppenwolfer and Private Vow, you take it as fast as you can click the ballpoint pen.

#6 10-02-2006, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oracle80

And obviously that business acumen was well heeded and inherited by his family.
When someone tosses that many zeroes in front of you for a horse whos been beating Steppenwolfer and Private Vow, you take it as fast as you can click the ballpoint pen.

Oh yeah and laugh all the way to the bank.

#7 10-02-2006, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Oh yeah and laugh all the way to the bank.

Right, I agree ok? So everyone made a score here, the agent who brokered it, the family who sold, and I won't say it as a fact, but I would be willing to bet that Holthus made a SCORE!! And I mean, zeroes Pillow Pants. More than he made in 10%, and more than if he won a lotta cash the next year with him.

So the guy moved him? So what? There are no injured parties here, except the guy who bought him.

Linny · #8 10-02-2006, 01:59 PM

They probably received an insurance bill and decided a partner was a good idea. remember, the odds of a son of Langfuhr hitting big paydirt on the TC campaign were slim. They sold at the maximum of his "value curve."

Cannon Shell · #9 10-02-2006, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

I root for people like the Haisfields. We need 1000 more of them.

Actually people like the Haisfields are NOT good for the business. They are in the business of commercial bloodstock which is polluting the game of HORSERACING. The only reason that they are investing in the business is to try to capitalize on the bloodstock craze. They have already shown an capacity to pay overinflated prices for stallion prospects , which leads to higher stud fees, which leads to more expensive horses, which leads to less people being able to afford to keep up with ever increasing bloodstock and training expenses, which leads to more people getting out of the business, which is very bad for business.

We need more horse owners not more stud farms standing marginal prospect for overinflated prices.