Who will be the "wise guy" horse???

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Giacomo had all the wiseguy elements - he just wasn't bet.

I disagree completely. That race fell apart. There was nothing wiseguy about that horse...A wiseguy horse is bet.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

I disagree completely. That race fell apart. There was nothing wiseguy about that horse...A wiseguy horse is bet.

He was basically viewed by many as the most likely horse to win the Derby coming into that years 3yo season.

He was a lightly raced horse with a strong closing 2nd to that years 2yo champion - while beating that years BC Juvenile winner in his final 2yo start.

He was five wide on both turns against a speed biased track and still ran a 98 Beyer in the Sham.

He was 2nd in the stakes record San Felipe run over an INSANELY fast track that was carrying speed.

And he was 4th in the merry-go-round like Santa Anita Derby that was a total slow early-fast late race shape.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

He was basically viewed by many as the most likely horse to win the Derby coming into that years 3yo season.

He was a lightly raced horse with a strong closing 2nd to that years 2yo champion - while beating that years BC Juvenile winner in his final 2yo start.

He was five wide on both turns against a speed biased track and still ran a 98 Beyer in the Sham.

He was 2nd in the stakes record San Felipe run over an INSANELY fast track that was carrying speed.

And he was 4th in the merry-go-round like Santa Anita Derby that was a total slow early-fast late race shape.

Apparently you aren't understanding the definition of a wise guy horse...Revisionist history doesn't help your argument. 50-1 doesn't make a wise guy horse ever. Someone will always make a case for all 20 horses in a field. It doesn't mean anything. Buzz creates wise guy horses. And Giacomo had the buzz of crickets....some said include in a super. And that's that.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I picked him to win that years Derby - posted it on boards- and there are many here who remember it.

The only difference between him and Dollar Bill is that Dollar Bill was 6/1 and he was 50/1 - and Dollar Bill was running against 7 or 8 horses with more than one vastly superior race while Giacomo was running against 2 or 3 horses with only a single vastly superior race.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I picked him to win that years Derby - posted it on boards- and there are many here who remember it.

The only difference between him and Dollar Bill is that Dollar Bill was 6/1 and he was 50/1 - and Dollar Bill was running against 7 or 8 horses with more than one vastly superior race while Giacomo was running against 2 or 3 horses with only a single vastly superior race.

OMG. Golfclap....B/c you picked the horse doesn't make him a wiseguy pick. It makes him a DrugS pick....Where am I, your posts usually make more sense than those in this thread.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

OMG. Golfclap....B/c you picked the horse doesn't make him a wiseguy pick. It makes him a DrugS pick....Where am I, your posts usually make more sense than those in this thread.

I never said he was a wiseguy horse.

I said he has all the elements of a wiseguy horse - like a Dollar Bill - but he just wasn't bet.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Apparently you aren't understanding the definition of a wise guy horse...Revisionist history doesn't help your argument. 50-1 doesn't make a wise guy horse ever. Someone will always make a case for all 20 horses in a field. It doesn't mean anything. Buzz creates wise guy horses. And Giacomo had the buzz of crickets....some said include in a super. And that's that.

Old Yahoo Group Derby Trailers had at least a heads up about his potetial...
http://www.derbytrail.com/wp/?p=52

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Old Yahoo Group Derby Trailers had at least a heads up about his potetial...
http://www.derbytrail.com/wp/?p=52

Steve, would you say that Dennis Of Cork was the wise guy horse last year? And he ran well....Sometimes they run well, sometimes they don't.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Steve, would you say that Dennis Of Cork was the wise guy horse last year? And he ran well....Sometimes they run well, sometimes they don't.

Denis of Cork had wiseguy elements ... a better than looked off the board finish in the merry go round like Illi Derby - but he was 27/1.

He wasn't bet either.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Denis of Cork had wiseguy elements ... a better than looked off the board finish in the Illi Derby - but he was 27/1.

He wasn't bet either.

Bzzzz. 27-1 is bet in the Derby. 50-1 is not. Plus, BB took a lot of money in the win spot. DOC was quite a bit different in the ex and tri pools if you ask me.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Steve, would you say that Dennis Of Cork was the wise guy horse last year? And he ran well....Sometimes they run well, sometimes they don't.

He was even 'wise guy-ish' before he got in. People were saying, "if only Denis of Cork could get in, he'd have a big shot'. It was actually funny because once he got in, people then went shopping for a new wiseguy horse as if they had let the secret out and everyone was going to be betting Denis of Cork.

[Pedigree Ann]

Stereotypical 'wise guy' horse is Saarland, who was always closing at shorter distances but hadn't won a prep race. Beautiful looking horse with a top-quality pedigree for a 10f who had won the Remsen at 2, which is rapidly becoming the kiss of death, so to speak. Actually started favorite in the Derby from all the wise-guy talk.