LeBron James..OVERRATED

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

8 out of 10 is the absolute worst a guy in the pro's should shoot from the line.

I mean look at Shaq! He's an embarrasment! How hard could it be to PRACTICE the free throw when you play BASKETBALL for a LIVING!

Just wanted to add that a lot of free throw shooting is not practice but it's mental. Remember Nick Anderson? He was a somewhat aggresive player and shot his fair share of free-throws. While he was never to be confused with Steve Nash, he was a consistent shooter at around the 70% range. Then came the 1995 NBA Finals. He went to the line late in the game with Orlando leading and missed four straight free-throws. His team ended up losing in overtime. The next year, he did close to his norm from the line but then early in the 1997 season, he had a chance to win another game from the line. He missed again. He said from that moment, he was terrified to go to the line. His stats showed it. His play showed it. He lost all of his aggressiveness because he didn't want to get fouled and have to go to the line. It was mental torture for him. Check out his numbers and how they changed.

First seven seasons:
He shot on average of one ft every 8.85 minutes and was at 69.5% career

Next season:
He shot on average of one ft every 23.01 minutes and was at 40.4%

During his first seven seasons, he shot a high of 74.1% and a low of 66.7%, with three seasons over 70%. After that, he shot 40.4, 63.8, 61.1, and 48.7%.

Shaq is another example. He's never been great but I had a friend that played with him and he told me that they charted his ft's in practice and he shot over 65% one year and over 70% another year. Yet in those same two seasons, he shot 55 and 53% in real games.

I'd be willing to bet that a big part of James' problems are mental. He knows the criticism of that part of his game. You put so much pressure on yourself to silence it that sometimes you do yourself more harm than good. Then when you miss a pressure one, you start thinking "here we go again."

[Mortimer]

I know you don't like me you unfriendly poster,you...but that was good.


But the great wing players....one of the many things making them great is their mental toughness and/or will to win.Maybe it's the same thing.I think that attribute is like physical talent;either it's already in you or it's not.

I don't think James has that.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Mortimer

I know you don't like me you unfriendly poster,you...but that was good.


But the great wing players....one of the many things making them great is their mental toughness and/or will to win.Maybe it's the same thing.I think that attribute is like physical talent;either it's already in you or it's not.

I don't think James has that.

First, I do not dislike you at all.

Second, I think that you are correct that this attribute is a big part of what makes some players good and some great, what makes some great and some hall of famers. I think James has it. I don't think he has it to the same extent as a Kobe Bryant or a Michael Jordan or Larry Bird or Magic Johnson though. He may not even have it to the extent of a lot of lesser players, Tony Allen or Maurice Williams, for example. But I don't think any of those players, or any player in the history of the league has the physical talents that he has. So it's a combination. Bird and Magic may have had ice water in the veins but they were limited in the things they could even attempt to do because of physical limitations whereas James may be scared but he's got so much ability that he's able to get things done. At the free-throw line though, none of the physical abilities or lack thereof matter. Maybe a difference between him and MJ is that MJ said to himself "I want the ball and I'm GOING to get it done" while LeBron says "I want the ball and I'm going to try and get it done."

[Mortimer]

Oh ...more goods stuff. Well said.




I'm glad you don't dislike me. I thought you did.

I have to run, but would like -really-to know what you think of David Lighty.

[Antitrust32]

I played BBall for a long time... and realize that foul shots are a mental game also.

I just still cant handle Pro's missing them left and right... its not good.

But I guess that is why mental toughness makes great players legandary, and also makes great players who dont have the mental toughness... well just another one to have played the game.

A few examples of the mentally tough:

Tiger (obviously)
Jack (obviously)
Jordan (obviously)
Shane Victorino (thats for you Scuds)

[ateamstupid]

I don't watch the Cavs every night like Morty does, so I can only speak as someone whose team has played LeBron 12 times in the last year. He's possibly the scariest physical specimen to ever step on the court. He doesn't scare me all that much as a player though, and that should be pretty alarming, since Kobe and Chris Paul and even guys like Chauncey Billups always make me nervous.

Not only does Brick James suck from the FT line, he still has yet to develop a consistent jumper, which is absolutely necessary for a wing of course. How can he be the best player in the league (as many claim) when I shout at the TV "give him space, make him shoot it!" every time he's on the perimeter in a clutch situation? I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one saying that..

Honestly, he's as strong as an ox, so part of me thinks he would actually be better playing mainly in the post, but that's beside the point.

I also think that if there were no foul limit, he'd be more effective, as he could drive to the basket more often, where he's unstoppable once he gets some steam.

Maybe I'm influenced by how inept he was in the EC Semis, but I agree with Mort here.

[Mortimer]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I don't watch the Cavs every night like Morty does, so I can only speak as someone whose team has played LeBron 12 times in the last year. He's possibly the scariest physical specimen to ever step on the court. He doesn't scare me all that much as a player though, and that should be pretty alarming, since Kobe and Chris Paul and even guys like Chauncey Billups always make me nervous.

Not only does Brick James suck from the FT line, he still has yet to develop a consistent jumper, which is absolutely necessary for a wing of course. How can he be the best player in the league (as many claim) when I shout at the TV "give him space, make him shoot it!" every time he's on the perimeter in a clutch situation? I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one saying that..

Honestly, he's as strong as an ox, so part of me thinks he would actually be better playing mainly in the post, but that's beside the point.

I also think that if there were no foul limit, he'd be more effective, as he could drive to the basket more often, where he's unstoppable once he gets some steam.

Maybe I'm influenced by how inept he was in the EC Semis, but I agree with Mort here.

!!!!!!!OOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I don't watch the Cavs every night like Morty does, so I can only speak as someone whose team has played LeBron 12 times in the last year. He's possibly the scariest physical specimen to ever step on the court. He doesn't scare me all that much as a player though, and that should be pretty alarming, since Kobe and Chris Paul and even guys like Chauncey Billups always make me nervous.

Not only does Brick James suck from the FT line, he still has yet to develop a consistent jumper, which is absolutely necessary for a wing of course. How can he be the best player in the league (as many claim) when I shout at the TV "give him space, make him shoot it!" every time he's on the perimeter in a clutch situation? I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one saying that..

Honestly, he's as strong as an ox, so part of me thinks he would actually be better playing mainly in the post, but that's beside the point.

I also think that if there were no foul limit, he'd be more effective, as he could drive to the basket more often, where he's unstoppable once he gets some steam.

Maybe I'm influenced by how inept he was in the EC Semis, but I agree with Mort here.

Of course you would think the best way to play him is to give him space. That's no different than Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan. I'm not saying he's as good a shooter as those two but you've got to try to take something away and that's got to be his driving. Why on earth would anyone want to play up on him and take away the jumper and allow him the driving lanes?

I'm actually surprised by the amount of criticism he gets. He easily scores 30 a night and if he wasn't so unselfish, could probably be up around 35-40. He single-handedly beat Detroit in the East Finals a couple of years ago and led his team to the championship series. Of all the teams to face the Celtics in the playoffs last year, his team played them the tightest and anyone that disagrees that that happened because of LeBron just doesn't know basketball. He's the reason guys like Gibson and Sczerbiak get the open shots they do. When he's going to the basket, he's getting the attention of every single defender. That's what enables their big guys to get offensive rebounds. I remember the same thing used to be true of Dominique Wilkins. His coaches would say that sometimes, a bad shot by Dominique was a good shot for the team because it led to offensive rebounds and easier shots. When guys are open, he finds them. He's the best passer in the league, including point guards. No doubt that he has weaknesses in his game. His defense could use some work. His jumper could use some work. He needs to shoot better from the line. But the Cavs would probably not finish in the upper half of the ACC without him.

[Mortimer]

Oh my God.




And you were doing so well.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Of course you would think the best way to play him is to give him space. That's no different than Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan. I'm not saying he's as good a shooter as those two but you've got to try to take something away and that's got to be his driving. Why on earth would anyone want to play up on him and take away the jumper and allow him the driving lanes?

I'm actually surprised by the amount of criticism he gets. He easily scores 30 a night and if he wasn't so unselfish, could probably be up around 35-40. He single-handedly beat Detroit in the East Finals a couple of years ago and led his team to the championship series. Of all the teams to face the Celtics in the playoffs last year, his team played them the tightest and anyone that disagrees that that happened because of LeBron just doesn't know basketball. He's the reason guys like Gibson and Sczerbiak get the open shots they do. When he's going to the basket, he's getting the attention of every single defender. That's what enables their big guys to get offensive rebounds. I remember the same thing used to be true of Dominique Wilkins. His coaches would say that sometimes, a bad shot by Dominique was a good shot for the team because it led to offensive rebounds and easier shots. When guys are open, he finds them. He's the best passer in the league, including point guards. No doubt that he has weaknesses in his game. His defense could use some work. His jumper could use some work. He needs to shoot better from the line. But the Cavs would probably not finish in the upper half of the ACC without him.

Are we going to resume our nightly battles Kg? Looks like you are re-energized.

These guys have actually made me have to defend Lebron. If they only knew.

[Mortimer]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Of course you would think the best way to play him is to give him space. That's no different than Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan. I'm not saying he's as good a shooter as those two but you've got to try to take something away and that's got to be his driving. Why on earth would anyone want to play up on him and take away the jumper and allow him the driving lanes?

I'm actually surprised by the amount of criticism he gets. He easily scores 30 a night and if he wasn't so unselfish, could probably be up around 35-40. He single-handedly beat Detroit in the East Finals a couple of years ago and led his team to the championship series. Of all the teams to face the Celtics in the playoffs last year, his team played them the tightest and anyone that disagrees that that happened because of LeBron just doesn't know basketball. He's the reason guys like Gibson and Sczerbiak get the open shots they do. When he's going to the basket, he's getting the attention of every single defender. That's what enables their big guys to get offensive rebounds. I remember the same thing used to be true of Dominique Wilkins. His coaches would say that sometimes, a bad shot by Dominique was a good shot for the team because it led to offensive rebounds and easier shots. When guys are open, he finds them. He's the best passer in the league, including point guards. No doubt that he has weaknesses in his game. His defense could use some work. His jumper could use some work. He needs to shoot better from the line. But the Cavs would probably not finish in the upper half of the ACC without him.

OK..now I'm upset.

I admit I am sure I don't know nearly as much as you...but some things are self evident.


Over time I have admitted that James is clearly far and way the best on the team. He's the best at driving the lane in the league and agree the best passer. Other things you mentioned go hand in hand with all that.


He's a bad 3 point shooter and takes far too many 3's. He's not good at the line...which diminishes he's driving ability. He's no special player on defense.He has more holes than I believe you may want to admit...he's also selfish most of the time. No guy who falls well below the league average in 3's should be taking so many 3's...for one thing.


Then about the Cavs without him. Of course they're not good....you can say that about a lot teams if all of a sudden their best player went poof! It's just a poor and unfair characterization. That said..the main reason the Cavs played Boston so well was team defense.....no way it was all James. There are some good players on that team. I didn't say all stars ,but people like to bash them as if they wouldn't even play 10 minutes for any other team.

James is what he is;a great athlete with a little more to go before he becomes a great player.He had one big game against Boston..the rest were not sa hot to horrible.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Of course you would think the best way to play him is to give him space. That's no different than Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan. I'm not saying he's as good a shooter as those two but you've got to try to take something away and that's got to be his driving. Why on earth would anyone want to play up on him and take away the jumper and allow him the driving lanes?

I'm actually surprised by the amount of criticism he gets. He easily scores 30 a night and if he wasn't so unselfish, could probably be up around 35-40. He single-handedly beat Detroit in the East Finals a couple of years ago and led his team to the championship series. Of all the teams to face the Celtics in the playoffs last year, his team played them the tightest and anyone that disagrees that that happened because of LeBron just doesn't know basketball. He's the reason guys like Gibson and Sczerbiak get the open shots they do. When he's going to the basket, he's getting the attention of every single defender. That's what enables their big guys to get offensive rebounds. I remember the same thing used to be true of Dominique Wilkins. His coaches would say that sometimes, a bad shot by Dominique was a good shot for the team because it led to offensive rebounds and easier shots. When guys are open, he finds them. He's the best passer in the league, including point guards. No doubt that he has weaknesses in his game. His defense could use some work. His jumper could use some work. He needs to shoot better from the line. But the Cavs would probably not finish in the upper half of the ACC without him.

I have never wanted Kobe or Jordan to take an open shot.

I WANT my team to give LeBron an open jumper. Anyone who watches basketball knows that there are certain guys you dare to shoot. LeBron is one of those guys, and is by far the best player to be one of those guys, IMO. Kobe and Jordan were/are definitely not those guys.

Simply put, if he could shoot jumpers and free throws, he'd be one of, if not the best in history. He still can't do either. I frankly don't think he cares enough to work to be great in those areas.