Tell Churchill Downs You Want Dime Supers!

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Monarchos1

I really don't believe that the 125,000 or so Kentucky Derby attendees who will likely witness only that one race all year are going to be storming the windows to wager on dime supers.

Why wouldn't they? It's the perfect bet for a novice. Cheap, a long shot to hit, but with a potentially large payout.

Originally Posted by Monarchos1

It's a complicated bet for newbies in any denomination and I cannot, in my wildest dreams, imagine that novices will try it just because it is available for 10 cents.

The fact that it's complicated wouldn't preclude newbies from trying to bet it. Have you ever been in a betting line at the Derby? It's Japanese Water Torture without the cool refreshment.

Originally Posted by Monarchos1

As far as regular horseplayers, the super isn't for everybody and I don't think those types will change their wagering habits just for this.

Can't speak for everyone, but I wager fairly often and hardly ever play superfectas, but the dime super is intriguing to me, and is something I'd definitely be playing on Derby day.

[zippyneedsawin]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Can't speak for everyone, but I wager fairly often and hardly ever play superfectas, but the dime super is intriguing to me, and is something I'd definitely be playing on Derby day.

Exactly. I don't play superfectas.. or dime supers very often either. But when the $1 super payoff can be 40K in the derby(creating a 4k payoff for a dime), I'm more interested... or at least I was.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by zippyneedsawin

Exactly. I don't play superfectas.. or dime supers very often either. But when the $1 super payoff can be 40K in the derby(creating a 4k payoff for a dime), I'm more interested... or at least I was.

i made the mistake of thinking dime supers always pay a 10th of the payout for the $1 super. not so. we were at arlington, the super paid over 3k, so i figured hey, 300-or so bucks. paid $14 for the dime.
i've never played one again.

[zippyneedsawin]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i made the mistake of thinking dime supers always pay a 10th of the payout for the $1 super. not so. we were at arlington, the super paid over 3k, so i figured hey, 300-or so bucks. paid $14 for the dime.
i've never played one again.

How did that happen?

[Danzig]

because i'd imagine the pool that hit the dime super was filled by a lot more players than those that paid for the dollar bet. only thing i can figure. i have no idea.

[zippyneedsawin]

Originally Posted by Danzig

because i'd imagine the pool that hit the dime super was filled by a lot more players than those that paid for the dollar bet. only thing i can figure. i have no idea.

I guess I've always assumed it's all put into the same pool... at least, any dime super I've ever hit (which isn't that many)... has always paid 1/10th of what the $1 payout was. Maybe they do things differently at Arlington.

[Danzig]

yeah, i figured that they did. so i was none too thrilled to get the payout.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i made the mistake of thinking dime supers always pay a 10th of the payout for the $1 super. not so. we were at arlington, the super paid over 3k, so i figured hey, 300-or so bucks. paid $14 for the dime.
i've never played one again.

something is wrong with this, i have never seen this happen. its always 1/10th of the dollar payout.

[Travis Stone]

Dime supers actually hurt overall handle believe it or not. It detracts from the overall pools. For example, if someone decides to bet $50 on a race at your track, they'll bet $50. But, if dime supers are available, they might only bet $30 (because they can bet for cheaper) and they spend the $20 on other racetracks.

In a big race like the Derby, I don't disagree with them not allowing 10-cent supers, with so much money being handled.

[booner]

I can understand them not wanting to offer dime supers at the track on Derby Day. I would hate to be a teller constantly handing out the extra $.60 all day long.

I don't see any reason why they couldn't be offered through ADW's.

[Thunder Gulch]

Originally Posted by booner

I can understand them not wanting to offer dime supers at the track on Derby Day. I would hate to be a teller constantly handing out the extra $.60 all day long.

I don't see any reason why they couldn't be offered through ADW's.

I'd play the supers, but like many others here, I will be in attendance and adding them to the wagering menu could cause a nightmare at the windows. It's not unusual to wait 30 minutes in line to wager and still get shutout of a race. Think about what you have. 75% of the tellers are temps there for one day, and 75% of the crowd doesn't have any clue what they are doing. I've heard a lot of folks go to the window and try to call the horse's name instead of number.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Dime supers actually hurt overall handle believe it or not. It detracts from the overall pools. For example, if someone decides to bet $50 on a race at your track, they'll bet $50. But, if dime supers are available, they might only bet $30 (because they can bet for cheaper) and they spend the $20 on other racetracks.
In a big race like the Derby, I don't disagree with them not allowing 10-cent supers, with so much money being handled.

or they could spend the $20 on dime supers in the next race at YOUR track.

what is to say that if your track didn't have the dime super that the bettor wouldn't have bet the entire $50 at other tracks?

The bottom line is this. The people with alot of cash to not want to share the big hits with people who will be spending 500-1000 rather than thousands so they can keep all the cash for themselves. money going to money.... big surprize. I still dont understand the difference between an 700000 dollar super and maybe a 500000 for every dollar. just plan old greedyness. What else is new?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Dime supers actually hurt overall handle believe it or not. It detracts from the overall pools. For example, if someone decides to bet $50 on a race at your track, they'll bet $50. But, if dime supers are available, they might only bet $30 (because they can bet for cheaper) and they spend the $20 on other racetracks.

In a big race like the Derby, I don't disagree with them not allowing 10-cent supers, with so much money being handled.

This is a very naive approach and exactly the kind of thinking by racetrack management ( on a variety of situations ) that helps keep racing in the dark ages. Just because a change, in this case a popular one, does not pay immediate dividends does not mean it won't be successful in the long run. While takeout obviously doesn't change from $1 supers to dime supers, the dime super obviously allows more coverage overall for all your players, and probably rates to keep more money in action, and thus possibly raises the churn on this bet....which is what increases handle. Instead of the money from the pool being dispersed to a few bettors it ends up spreading it more thinly to many betters. Theoretically this is better for churn ( and thus handle ). It's early ( for me and this bet ) and over time it is highly possible that this bet will prove a handle booster.

It's also worth noting that the $20 you give as an example that is wagered at another track, through simulcasting, provides only incremental less dollars to the simulcasting outlet. One could argue that the few lost dollars are more than made up by keeping your customer happy.

Churchill Downs Inc. makes baffling decisions all the time ( did they not raise their takeout substantially on Pick-4s and, I think, Supers or Pick-3s for the recently begun Calder meeting? ) so this recent one comes as no great surprise. However, the simple solution offered in this thread of allowing Supers on only self-service machines on Derby Day seems to have alluded them. Do they honestly believe that the carnage of Derby Day will be further exacerbated by doing so? Or, more likely, did they not really think this through? Your core players should never be dismissed just because it's the one day you can do no wrong. Racetracks seem to make this kind of mistake far too often.

[mik9872]

I agree that Churchill should offer .10 supers on Derby and Oaks days, even if only on automated machines or Adw. Oops, there won't be Adw

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

This is a very naive approach and exactly the kind of thinking by racetrack management ( on a variety of situations ) that helps keep racing in the dark ages. Just because a change, in this case a popular one, does not pay immediate dividends does not mean it won't be successful in the long run. While takeout obviously doesn't change from $1 supers to dime supers, the dime super obviously allows more coverage overall for all your players, and probably rates to keep more money in action, and thus possibly raises the churn on this bet....which is what increases handle. Instead of the money from the pool being dispersed to a few bettors it ends up spreading it more thinly to many betters. Theoretically this is better for churn ( and thus handle ). It's early ( for me and this bet ) and over time it is highly possible that this bet will prove a handle booster.

It's also worth noting that the $20 you give as an example that is wagered at another track, through simulcasting, provides only incremental less dollars to the simulcasting outlet. One could argue that the few lost dollars are more than made up by keeping your customer happy.

I don't think the churn figures are as high as we might think. People are not attacking the wager properly. If you walk around our track, the floor is scattered with $2.40 super boxes. Obviously, this is an ineffective way to bet the wager (and yes, all tix on the floor are losers to begin with). Personally, I am constantly struggling with the best way to play them and have almost phased them out completely.

[Monarchos1]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Dime supers actually hurt overall handle believe it or not. It detracts from the overall pools. For example, if someone decides to bet $50 on a race at your track, they'll bet $50. But, if dime supers are available, they might only bet $30 (because they can bet for cheaper) and they spend the $20 on other racetracks.

In a big race like the Derby, I don't disagree with them not allowing 10-cent supers, with so much money being handled.

I haven't seen any evidence to support your assertion that dime supers hurt the pools. What is the source for your information?

I, for one, play the bet in multiples, usually equally a dollar, to avoid the tax withholdings when I hit. I don't think punching the repeat button takes much time at the machines or the windows.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by Monarchos1

I haven't seen any evidence to support your assertion that dime supers hurt the pools. What is the source for your information?

I just sent you a PM.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

something is wrong with this, i have never seen this happen. its always 1/10th of the dollar payout.

my kids and i all exchanged long looks at the machine when it showed the payout. too late now tho if it was wrong, it was last year.

[2MinsToPost]

Ok so for those who support dime supers on Derby Day I propose this thought which could also be listed as fact without question.

Derby Day gets more then enough money in the pools, all of them including the super and all of us know this. Derby Day is also amatuer day when you get a ton, a ton, of people who only bet one day a year. The lines are long at every cotton pickin teller line from coast to coast and God knows this. Tellers get all kinds walking up saying give me $2 across on Funny Cide, etc etc.. Let me get to my point..................

Dime supers are fine thru the year but on traditional days like the Derby they have no place. Not when you have all the money pumping in from across the world on the single biggest day of the year in racing. Tradition has taken a step back in a lot of areas in this business (see polytrack) but for crying out loud let Derby Day be what it is, a day when a bunch of people bet their horse(s) across the board, etc etc but please the LAST thing that needs to be implemeted is dime supers.

Its bad enough on a Saturday in January, and it sure as hell has no place on the 1st Saturday in May. If you can't afford to box 4 horses in a super on May 3rd for a $1 maybe you should reconsider your gambling budget because May 3rd does not need several thousand people trying to box Big Brown, Monba, Smooth Air and Pyro at 5:45pm for a dime.

Some things are better left alone, and Derby Day is one of them.