Eight Belles to the Derby?

RolloTomasi · #1 04-13-2008, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

It's not a joke, it has just been overhyped as if it is the equivalent of the Derby when plain and simple, it just isn't even in the same ballpark. The best 3yo filly racing is in the summer in NY, not in the Oaks.

Aren't the fillies that contest the Kentucky Oaks typically the same one's that run in the Mother Goose, CCA Oaks, and Alabama?

SniperSB23 · #2 04-13-2008, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Aren't the fillies that contest the Kentucky Oaks typically the same one's that run in the Mother Goose, CCA Oaks, and Alabama?

There are a bunch of veteran NY based trainers that couldn't care less about the Oaks who always have a few contenders once the summer months come along. They usually meet the quality horses from the Oaks once the riffraff have been sorted out.

hockey2315 · #3 04-13-2008, 10:46 PM

"Porter said he still has to review the competition for the Derby as it stands after April 12, but that a long-term plan would have Eight Belles at least entering the Derby, should everything fall into place."

So they're going to enter her in both and then scratch out of one? That's really fair to other horses that will get shut out because there's no AE list for the derby or oaks. . . Porter's a d#$%& bag. . .

Danzig · #4 04-13-2008, 10:49 PM

i'd imagine he'll enter and then wait to see what post they get. he's got the right to do so, and the money won to allow it.

hockey2315 · #5 04-13-2008, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

i'd imagine he'll enter and then wait to see what post they get. he's got the right to do so, and the money won to allow it.

you really think that's fair to keep another horse out of a race like the derby or oaks?

Danzig · #6 04-13-2008, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315

you really think that's fair to keep another horse out of a race like the derby or oaks?

if someone gets knocked out, they should just cry me a river. everyone knows the rules, his filly has the money won, while others don't. i'm sure if he enters her when it's time, it's with every intention of running her there. if she ends up in the oaks, so be it. so it'll keep out a horse like denis of cork...so what. he should have run in the rebel and another horse would be on the bubble instead. if people don't like the rules on the AE deal, they should take it up with churchill downs, rather than get pissed off at rick porter if his filly ends up in the oaks.

lostcode · #7 04-13-2008, 10:58 PM

Enough about Beyer Speed Figures, Eight Belles has no shot to win the Derby, none....Rags to Riches was a genetic freak last year and if people think she will go into this group and run with Big Brown, War Pass and Gayego up front and hold off the closers. I hope she does run she will take a lot of money after Rags winning last year in the Belmont. There is more to the Kentucky Derby than speed figures.

hockey2315 · #8 04-13-2008, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

ii'm sure if he enters her when it's time, it's with every intention of running her there.

Umm. . . no. . . not if she's entered in both.

Can I interest you in an Eight Belles/Eight Belles Oaks/Derby double?

SniperSB23 · #9 04-13-2008, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315

"Porter said he still has to review the competition for the Derby as it stands after April 12, but that a long-term plan would have Eight Belles at least entering the Derby, should everything fall into place."

So they're going to enter her in both and then scratch out of one? That's really fair to other horses that will get shut out because there's no AE list for the derby or oaks. . . Porter's a d#$%& bag. . .

I'm not sure he can even do that. You may have to choose one or the other at entry time. Otherwise everyone with a contending horse in the Derby would of course enter their Oaks filly as well to cut down on the field size.

RolloTomasi · #10 04-13-2008, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

There are a bunch of veteran NY based trainers that couldn't care less about the Oaks who always have a few contenders once the summer months come along.

Such as who?

Aside from Sky Beauty and Yanks Music (a decade ago), you can pretty much bank on the Oaks influencing the Mother Goose trifecta going on about 20 years now.

SniperSB23 · #11 04-13-2008, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Such as who?

Aside from Sky Beauty and Yanks Music (a decade ago), you can pretty much bank on the Oaks influencing the Mother Goose trifecta going on about 20 years now.

Shug and Jerkens to name a few. Usually have top class 3yo fillies, rarely worry about the Oaks.

RolloTomasi · #12 04-13-2008, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Shug and Jerkens to name a few. Usually have top class 3yo fillies, rarely worry about the Oaks.

Shug?

How bout Dispute, Yell, My Flag, Glitter Woman?

He isn't one to skip the Oaks if he has the right horse. Nearly ran Boca Grande last year, in fact.

Kasept · #13 04-14-2008, 05:58 AM

If Eight Belles goes Saturday instead of Friday, it is Rick Porter and NO ONE ELSE making the decision. Even the consideration of her in the Derby has Porter's ham-handed fingerprints all over it. If Jones were making the call and was forced to run one of the 2 in the Derby, it would be Proud Spell, who is far better suited for the task.

cmorioles · #14 04-14-2008, 06:01 AM

It isn't a big issue, but I've always thought fillys should have to have graded earnings against males to have them count.

zippyneedsawin · #15 04-14-2008, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

If Eight Belles goes Saturday instead of Friday, it is Rick Porter and NO ONE ELSE making the decision. Even the consideration of her in the Derby has Porter's ham-handed fingerprints all over it. If Jones were making the call and was forced to run one of the 2 in the Derby, it would be Proud Spell, who is far better suited for the task.

I agree. If a Jones trainee should be heading to the Derby, it's that one.

philcski · #16 04-14-2008, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

If Eight Belles goes Saturday instead of Friday, it is Rick Porter and NO ONE ELSE making the decision. Even the consideration of her in the Derby has Porter's ham-handed fingerprints all over it. If Jones were making the call and was forced to run one of the 2 in the Derby, it would be Proud Spell, who is far better suited for the task.

Initially I agreed with you, but I've reconsidered my stance. Eight Belles has every right to take a shot, based on the boys' results. While Proud Spell might be a 'more likely' winner based on the likely race shape, Eight Belles might actually be the better of the two fillies.

If they both go in the Oaks, I may just use only those two in every multirace wager. Jones has an absolutely STACKED hand...

hailrazer · #17 04-14-2008, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

If Eight Belles goes Saturday instead of Friday, it is Rick Porter and NO ONE ELSE making the decision. Even the consideration of her in the Derby has Porter's ham-handed fingerprints all over it. If Jones were making the call and was forced to run one of the 2 in the Derby, it would be Proud Spell, who is far better suited for the task.

This is from Larry Jones to John Piesen on running Eight Belles a couple of days ago. Could be LJ backing up the owners wishes, but if he genuinely thinks Eight Belles is the best 3 year old running this year, I think you try the Derby and let Proud Spell do the work in the Oaks.

http://www.nationalracemasters.com/a...ingle&hd_id=05

I'm still leaving out hope that Eight Belles will go to the Kentucky Derby.

Trainer Jones, conservative by nature, believes that Eight Belles is the season's best 3-year-old, regardless of gender, but he feels that Eight Belles -- unlike 1988 Derby winner Winning Colors -- does not have sufficient speed to clear the Derby field at the first turn.

"I spoke to D. Wayne the other day," Jones was telling me this morning, "and he told me that Winning Colors was so fast from the gate, and made the lead so easy, that she didn't know if there were boys or girls or whatever behind her.

"On the other hand, Eight Belles doesn't have that kind of gate speed. It takes her a while to get going. And if she would draw 17 or 18, that would really be a problem."

That said, if Eight Belles passes the Derby, she and Proud Spell conceivably could run one-two in the Kentucky Oaks...just as two other Jones' fillies ran one-two in an Oaklawn hundred-grander on Wednesday.

Cannon Shell · #18 04-14-2008, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

If Eight Belles goes Saturday instead of Friday, it is Rick Porter and NO ONE ELSE making the decision. Even the consideration of her in the Derby has Porter's ham-handed fingerprints all over it. If Jones were making the call and was forced to run one of the 2 in the Derby, it would be Proud Spell, who is far better suited for the task.

Personally I dont think they have any intention of running in the Derby, Porter is most likely just keeping his name in the media spotlight by suggesting it. He knows how to manipulate the racing media, not that it is very hard.